Author Topic: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16  (Read 2175 times)

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2016, 06:32:13 PM »
Definitely not saying they didn't happen, just that it seemed like they have stopped happening, and wondered where/how people could deck on a G rated route.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 06:40:43 PM by NEAlpineStart »

Offline lucky luke

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2016, 10:11:27 PM »
The consequences of a fall on the second pitch before the bolt are substantial. On Sunday, I took a big lead fall (25-30 ft) at the crux before the bolt and hit the slab below, breaking my foot. I protected with gear in the horizontal before the steep section, but unless I missed a gear placement, there was nothing else until the bolt above.

i did the last ascent of the climber who did tbe first ascent.

he talked about the competition between ttad and sport and saigon is clearly a sport route in a trad cliff.

i onsighted the second pitch. but it was not an rasy one. 25 feet look or an overestimation or a bad cam placement. with trad technique...it is hard to fall there. but it is akward.

Offline Jeff

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2016, 07:45:06 PM »
Re: Black Lung-- I was involved with two rescue lowers in the late 1980s-- in each case the leader fell from bottom of the crack, pulled gear and landed on the big tree ledge-- both hurt quite badly with fractures of ankle, elbow and head laceration for one, humerus, kneecap, ankle and multiple lacerations for the other-- looking back, cams were fairly new then and people may have had them undercammed-- too long ago to analyze here but since I wasn't a full time local then and I was involved in 2 rescues involving Black Lung ( In each case I was about to start leading, once on Retaliation, the other time on The Book when we heard the "jangle, thud"), I'd agree with Strand that ground falls were common on the climb.  In addition, years ago, the route was NOWHERE near as clean as it is now-- the black lichen from which it got its name ( early ascents resulted in inhaling a lot of it) still obscured footholds and made stemming friction less secure.

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2016, 08:38:11 PM »
That makes sense. Thanks for the historic perspective Jeff!

Offline lucky luke

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 11:50:22 PM »
), I'd agree with Strand that ground falls were common on the climb.  In addition, years ago, the route was NOWHERE near as clean as it is now-- the black lichen from which it got its name ( early ascents resulted in inhaling a lot of it) still obscured footholds and made stemming friction less secure.

black lung have three start. some are a lot easier than yhe other. in trad...they tried to just use the crack and avoid the easy syart on the right. in sport. the people follow some one else and red point the route after. so the chance to deck today is lower because it is donein top rope before leading it...with beta more often.

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2016, 10:10:08 PM »
actually luke. in trad one follows the natural features of the climb finding the path of least restiance that the cliff offers.  In sport one cleans and bolts the hardest way up the cliff finding the most difficult path that the cliff offers..

Offline lucky luke

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2016, 07:49:19 AM »
actually luke. in trad one follows the natural features of the climb finding the path of least restiance that the cliff offers.  In sport one cleans and bolts the hardest way up the cliff finding the most difficult path that the cliff offers..
for a sport climber, it is a general way of thinking. you are better than trad because you climb harder. finding the most difficult path means that no 5.7 route could be open because there always a way to make the route harder than 5.7 by avoiding some hold. in other way...it is false

trad climber think that a cliff most be develop by the line of least resistance first and after with harder route. in the sixties...climbing 5.8 was amasingly difficult and the nature of the equipment, pitons, make the climb more tiring because you have to drive ot into the rock. neverthless. good trad climber onsight very hard climb.

i dont think that you can compare sport and trad by the way the route is open. many people will like to have bolt in black lung to be able to climb it. the difference is that some people dont like the challenge of placing pro. it took time and they are not concentrate in the climb. futher more people dont like the stress that the pro can pop out and the idea of injury in a fall is very nerve braking. it is a question of ethic

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2016, 02:44:25 PM »
No one I know wants a bolt on black lung.  Plenty of 5.7 sport climbs.

Offline Admin Al

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2016, 03:51:08 PM »
many people will like to have bolt in black lung to be able to climb it.

this I would not advise!
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Offline tsherman

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2016, 03:09:43 PM »
A buddy of mine decked on BL mid September this year (fractured leg and heel). It was odd reading this in retrospect as I did not know of any reputation. Also does black lung really feel a full grade easier than Pine Tree???

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2016, 05:27:46 AM »
Yes

Offline frik

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2016, 08:45:02 AM »
Maybe 1.5 grades easier. And easy to protect

Offline DaveR

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2016, 02:21:08 PM »
Maybe 1.5 grades easier. And easy to protect

I agree Pine Tree feels way way harder but, IMO the protection is hard to beat on either climb.

Offline frik

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2016, 04:45:25 PM »
Ya i only added the comment about how easy it was to protect because it's pretty shocking someone decked on it.

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Accident on Saigons Cathedral Ledge 7/31/16
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2016, 09:15:45 PM »
These two climbs (BL and PineTree) are a solid grade apart IMO. PT is definitely more sustained and strenuous. BL has solid stances for placing pro right up to the crux. I think Jeff Lea's explanation of the bad rap coming from the early condition of the route (so much lichen you would be coughing) explains the early reputation.