Author Topic: Who was guiding willeys slide today  (Read 2481 times)

Offline iclimb

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Who was guiding willeys slide today
« on: February 22, 2017, 06:29:45 pm »
Just wanted to give a shout out to the "guide" with wonderful (sarcasm) judgement who brought out a male and female client duo today. The female client was wearing a green maine marathon shirt.

This guide brought them up through the steep woods trail on the climbers right...until he got to where i was leading. At this point he thought itd be brilliant to trudge 3 people across snow slopes 100 ft directly above me, raining down microwave sized blocks of wet heavy snow.

Some of it broke up into small harmless pieces. Some were softball and football sized. They were an excellent mix of snow balls and slush balls. Several hit my helmet and shoulders directly. I would have been knocked out were it not for my helmet, so it did it's job.

Who didnt do their job was the "guide". Stupid decisions repeatedly raining hazardous shit onto my head until i yelled up what the fuck are you doing. Never once yelling out snow or ice!

Maybe he thought that snow is innocuous and there's no need. Well there was an effing need brah. What the hell were you teaching them anyway? You were there for like 1.5 hrs total. I'd hate to think they paid for that.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 06:58:07 pm by iclimb »

Offline Coreshot

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2017, 06:44:57 pm »
You mad bro?

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2017, 06:57:20 pm »
lol a little man. It was pretty bad etiquette, potentially dangerous, and seemed like pretty poor behavior and judgement from a supposed guide. Id really like to know what service he worked for or whether he was so pro he has his own company.

Offline dave095790

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2017, 08:30:54 pm »
You mad bro?

brah?

The guy probably doesn't have the stones to admit it, though there are always two sides to every story. 

You could probably call the main guide services and ask if they had anyone at that location on that day; the guide service might be interested in hearing if their guides are being bad stewards to the community ...

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2017, 08:39:24 pm »
Ya i plan on calling them tomorrow. Im not really sure what his side could have been. He possibly didnt realize how much he was knocking down, but since we didnt know whether it was snow or ice each time, we screamed ice as we ducked for cover, so he should have at least heard that and known. There really was no excuse imo. The slide was being well shared by 3 parties. There was lots of space for him to bring his 2 clients up without bothering anyone, and he could have at least spoke with us to see if we were cool with his plans. I did just that with the others as i passed them to be sure that i wouldnt ruin anyones day or plans.

He just seemed like a cocky, half assed excuse for a guide, bringing people up and down some steep snow for 1.5 hrs in tow. Like i said I'd hate to think they paid for that.

Offline JBro

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2017, 09:23:03 pm »
I didn't know Willy's had a trail on climbers right.
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
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This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2017, 09:49:58 pm »
I was guiding there today, and I might regret chiming in here but I'm going to do it anyways. So you know who I am I was the late comer who said hello while you were heading down to "practice rappelling"... I'm sorry your climbing plans were altered but I think your reaction is a bit strong. I heard a call of "ice" while instructing self arrest practice at the base of Willey's and saw the snow blocks that came down and hit you. A couple more chunks of snow came down with out any warning but they were also non-consequential in size.

I mentioned to you that type of thing does feel sketchy especially while you are leading. They were snow blocks, somewhat heavier from the 45 degree temps we were all choosing to climb in, but not like massive ice dinner plates raining down.

That said I'm not condoning or approving anything but trying to look at the situation objectively. Willey's Slide has room for 4-5 parties to climb until it bottlenecks near the top. In this case a guided party traversed in above you and rained a bit of dense snow on you. It really is a dilemma. You were enjoying a 2 person ascent of the right most ice climbing and a 3 person party breezed up the far right snow climb that bottlenecks above your fall line... I can't say they did much wrong here, but I can see why you would be pissed off.

I'll leave it with the fact that the guide in question is definitely one of the most considerate guides I know, and will be bummed to hear his day out today caused this thread.


Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2017, 07:09:26 am »
Ya the bottleneck thing makes sense and its understandable that ot can be hard to avoid. I do realize it was snow, not ice, but it wasnt spindrift or powder, it was pretty heavy and definitely had weight to it. I havent been hit by large pieces of ice before, but based on how it felt to be hit by the snow I can say they weren't inconsequential if I wasn't wearing a helmet or if a piece had hit me in the face.

The main reason I'm bothered is his lack of etiquette. I felt like with 2 clients who he wanted to experience some steep snow climbing, he could have had better options. There was a lot of rotten ice here and there from the warming up. What if he or the clients kicked that stuff down instead?

What about the climbers below him and his clients who couldnt tell what he was knocking down, they just saw shit flying down at them in the middle of a lead?

Its not that they did anything wrong, but it was a sketchy situation to me in the moment and I felt like if I was in his shoes I would have made some more common sense decisions - there are lots of certifications needed for guiding, but common sense is one that anyone can have. I don't agree with his.

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2017, 08:04:44 am »
I also should say for context that i was taking my father in law out that day, who is relatively inexperienced on ice. I felt comfortable with everything up until the point that all this started, but I was essentially soloing the easy grade 2 ice. It made it feel sketchier. I realize what kind of assessment could be had from below, and I respect that perspective, but i actually felt the pieces hitting me and how heavy they were. Some may have even had some ice in them judging by one sore spot on my shoulder today. Snow does this funny thing when water is running in or around it and then it gets cold at night...it freezes. I had a whole lot of concerns about it (obviously) and felt that it was 100% avoidable. While my reaction seems heavy, my safety is heavy and I felt like even though there werent any consequences from the situation, there could have really been some if I hadn't done things the right way as it unfolded. Someone else putting me in danger, even if it's only potential danger, warrants a heavy reaction in my book.

So ya, I was pissed.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 08:24:06 am by iclimb »

Offline David_G48

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2017, 09:08:48 am »
On several occasions I have seen guides forget common sense judgment and I assume that it is in an effort to appease a paying client although it may be for other reasons. It is common knowledge not to climb over the top of another climber in view without asking permission first, no exceptions except for some emergency situations. It doesn't matter if there is no real danger to the leader below because perceived danger by the party below can take them off their game and cause accidents. If someone was climbing WI6 and this happened everyone would say how horrible it was as the climber could get distracted and fall. Well, we have no idea whether the people below us are at their limit and if we are taking them off their game, causing a dangerous situation. So I am in disagreement with Dave's analysis that iclimb was blowing it out of proportion. Further iclimb states that their shoulder was bruised giving credence that the danger was real and not perceived.

To all climbers please think about other climbers around you and do not cross over their line of climb without asking 1st. This never would have happened years ago which I like to attribute to good judgment, then again it could be that there just wasn't that many people climbing.

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2017, 10:02:46 am »
Thank you for the validation man. It's pretty frustrating to have my legitimate concerns cast aside because of the grade or the perceived lack of danger people had at other angles.

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2017, 11:37:22 am »
Jpro, willeys has a well established boot pack trail on the left and right from people walking off if they dont want to rap down. Maybe you're flaming me for semantics because i called it a trail, maybe you legit didnt know.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2017, 12:08:52 pm by iclimb »

Offline JBro

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2017, 03:10:06 pm »
I didn't flame you at all. I had no idea there was a trail on climbers right.
Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2017, 03:40:51 pm »
 :-[Oh cool, ya thats why i included that as an option. I was a bit on the defensive since I had to keep legitamizing my experience, so my fault for assuming you might be flaming.

Yes, it changes year to year but its always roughly the same spots on either side. If someone chooses not to rap the slide proper, they can walk off either side through the trees on snow.

Fairly steep, maybe about as steep as lions head winter, but easy with snow.

Offline krankonthis

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2017, 07:35:05 pm »
I was off to your left and saw the snowman going down the hill.  I mentioned it to the party that caused it and they had no idea they sent the snowman down. 
You where right behind them on the descent, you didn't see them in the parking lot to express your displeasure? Or just decided to use the podium of hate to rain judgment?
Sam