Author Topic: Who was guiding willeys slide today  (Read 2526 times)

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2017, 08:04:53 pm »
 if you rope up and pitch it out  on something as low angle as Willies you stand a good chance of getting passed and crap will fall on you...   not right or wrong but just the way it is.....

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2017, 08:30:57 pm »
Thanks for mentioning it to them. I was about 5 minutes behind the 2 clients on the hike out to the car, but the guide  (shocker) left his clients behind to hike down on their own and took off before I got to the parking lot from what I could tell. I didn't say anything to the clients because none of it was their fault or their problem, and they were in their car pulling out as I was stepping down the last snowbank to the parking pullout.

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2017, 08:38:54 pm »
Tradman you are right to a point. I just dont see the point of what he did or why he brought them there for such a short jaunt. I dont see what they learned from that. They did zero climbing. Just walked up through the woods and then tied in, walked on slopes above people actually climbing while kicking everything down on us. There are many other steep snow slopes through the woods or otherwise, and there were many other options on the slide itself to avoid what happened.

It honestly seemed like the guy just didnt care. And judging by a conversation I could hear him having with his clients as I brought up my second, he had a pretty cocky attitude. He said something along the lines about how easily he could control risk in the mountains.

I remember rolling my eyes and ignoring them at that point, at least until everything else happened.

Offline JBro

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2017, 08:58:18 pm »
We had a guide rudely cut us off once, but on the rap we managed to drop our rope on his head to even the score. 

Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
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Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2017, 09:09:08 pm »
 ;D

Hahahaha

Offline krankonthis

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 02:38:40 pm »
Most "Guides" use Willeys Water Slide for teaching mountaineering; mountain axe, crampooning, and self arrest. Hence the not "climbing" and is WI 2 really climbing? I think it is the worst angle for "climbing" that has ever been invented.
Sam

Offline NEAlpineStart

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2017, 03:34:23 pm »
I also thought it looked like those involved were within 50 feet of each other at the bottom so that would have been a good time to say something. This forum is great for becoming a sounding board of hate pretty quickly.

Since you keep bringing up "client value" I'll throw out there that we often use Willey's like this in the AM then climb another route in the PM to add further value. I don't know if that's what they did but based on timing I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't grab a quick run up Standard Route at Frankenstein to finish off the day.

And to throw more flame on the fire I 100% agree with Sam that Willey's is the worse type of climbing. It has two redeeming factors.

1) Great view

2) Great snow for teaching mountaineering skills (self arrest, short pitching, etc)

The party of three in the middle was pitching it out when I arrived in the parking lot around 9:45am. Taking our time and spending 30-45 minutes practicing self arrest at the base we still managed to climb 70% of the route, rap off, hike out, and see them still on route from the parking lot around 3pm.

5+ hours to climb Willey's Slide?

Again, sorry your shoulder got bruised and your day was altered. I'm not 100% defending the guide here though I can say if you're heading up Willey's during a holiday week it's possible you will be passed. Conditions were quite ripe for safe passing IMO (zero brittle ice). Other great areas that have less guide/crowd issues are Silver Cascade & The Flume, both nearby.

Offline Homeless Junkie

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2017, 05:55:34 pm »
I'll throw my two cents in after reading all this.

 First, walking up through the woods and then climbing, hiking, mountaineering or whatever above another party is lame PERIOD, end thread. There's no excuse unless you have a conversation and permission.

 If you start at the bottom and pass other parties that's, as Tradman says, is the way is. Now don't be surprised if others give you shit for that too! Willeys is gumby central. Almost as bad as LHMW every Saturday after 9am.

 To the OP, If you're looking for a discussion about this try posting this on Mountain Project.

I'm going to rob banks til I retire or get caught.. Either way I'm set for life!

Offline pappy

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 06:14:26 pm »
As Joe (Szot) used to say, 'Grade 2? You mean walking?'
If you're gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2017, 11:02:45 pm »
Homeless junkie - exactly man. I really dont get the attitude some are displaying here that the behavior of the gide was appropriate or that I should just deal with it and say nothing.

NEAlpine - 50 feet? I was still 75+ vertical feet up, not to mention the horizontal distance of the gentle angle at the bottom, as the two clients were there alone after the guide had already taken off. By the time I arrived at the bottom of the slide, the 2 clients were a couple minutes ahead of me down the hiking trail out. I appreciate your perspectives, but they frankly arent accurate. I experienced it and wasnt simply viewing and estimating the actual scene as it unfolded. I wasnt part of the 3 person group taking 5+ hrs on the slide. But IMO they can take as long as they want, and i believe they said they were prepping for something and that they were going to repeatedly practice a few skills as they made their way up. As I expect anyone to, when i started climbing i said hi to them and made sure my plans wouldnt interfere with theirs. Actually come to think of it, I did that with both parties that were there starting at the same time as us. Granted ibwas 2 pitches up when the guide in question started in with his clients, but he was 50 feet to my right in the woods right before cutting above me and could have easily let me know his plans or asked if it was cool.

Pappy - show me proof that you or anyone else led their first multipitch ice climb on grade 4 or higher. Im 2 seasons into leading and took out an inexperienced second. Grade 2, or the grade 3 bulges up top had i not bailed, seemed great to me.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 11:04:59 pm by iclimb »

Offline JBro

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2017, 02:33:10 am »
I also thought it looked like those involved were within 50 feet of each other at the bottom so that would have been a good time to say something. This forum is great for becoming a sounding board of hate pretty quickly.

Since you keep bringing up "client value" I'll throw out there that we often use Willey's like this in the AM then climb another route in the PM to add further value. I don't know if that's what they did but based on timing I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't grab a quick run up Standard Route at Frankenstein to finish off the day.

And to throw more flame on the fire I 100% agree with Sam that Willey's is the worse type of climbing. It has two redeeming factors.

1) Great view

2) Great snow for teaching mountaineering skills (self arrest, short pitching, etc)

The party of three in the middle was pitching it out when I arrived in the parking lot around 9:45am. Taking our time and spending 30-45 minutes practicing self arrest at the base we still managed to climb 70% of the route, rap off, hike out, and see them still on route from the parking lot around 3pm.

5+ hours to climb Willey's Slide?

Again, sorry your shoulder got bruised and your day was altered. I'm not 100% defending the guide here though I can say if you're heading up Willey's during a holiday week it's possible you will be passed. Conditions were quite ripe for safe passing IMO (zero brittle ice). Other great areas that have less guide/crowd issues are Silver Cascade & The Flume, both nearby.

You're coming off like a complete dick. I hope Eastern Mountain Sports is proud.

Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort.  You deserve it!
-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.
-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.
-Friar Tuck

Offline tradmanclimbz

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2017, 07:56:23 am »
sorry but I have to jump on the dick wagon here :P Pitching out these kinds of climbs is going to subject you to all kinds of objective hazards. not the least of which is getting passed...

the photo is shoestring with six  soloists (counting myself) passing a roped party.  That was just our random little group. Certainly there were others ahead and behind us who must also have passed the roped parties.  If you do pitch out these climbs you need to learn how to do it with a maximum of 3 screws per pitch. this is Not a cocky thing but a safty issue. grade 2 ice is either practice for mountain climbing or it is mountain climbing. either way you have to move fast for safty.  I was taught to move fast Ice climbing in my very early stages of learning. Required reading was the White Spider. we were taught that if you move slow in the mountains you will die.

Offline pappy

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2017, 09:24:53 am »

Pappy - show me proof that you or anyone else led their first multipitch ice climb on grade 4 or higher. Im 2 seasons into leading and took out an inexperienced second. Grade 2, or the grade 3 bulges up top had i not bailed, seemed great to me.

Chill out dude, I just thought it was a funny saying from Mr. Joe; if you want to pick a fight, pick it with him. Which would be hard at this point, and a really poor idea if he were still around anyway. You're having fun? That's all that matters. And I don't have much use for most guides anyway, but you've really beat this dead horse to death.
But since you asked, my ex-wife and I put up an FA with another couple in NC called Frozen Heart that I guess is now considered the classic long moderate down there. 3+, not 4, 500'. Was not my first rodeo, but her first lead ever was up the steep start of the main slab. She went up 30', placed her first screw--this was '88, so one of those old dull Chouinard screws, you young punks have no freaking idea how easy ice is now with sharp screws--said, 'That really sucked', and ran it out 120' to a tree at the side of the slab. My friend Mark--he and his wife were climbing next to us, the slab is about 100' wide--kept looking over and saying, 'Don't you think you should tell her to put something in?'
I just shrugged and said, 'You argue with her, don't work for me.'
I honestly don't remember what my first multi was, maybe Standard. Or Practice Slab Left at the Lake, which barely qualifies as multi pitch but definitely qualifies as 4.
If you're gonna be stupid, you gotta be tough.

Offline krankonthis

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2017, 09:47:27 am »
I know plenty of people that have progressed to WI 4 or higher in there first year/first lead.  They were all rock climbers first but once you get a hang of swinging and kicking your DTC.
And if your really that butt hurt, that "guide" would gladly talk it out with you in person, not on the podium of hate.
Sam

Offline iclimb

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Re: Who was guiding willeys slide today
« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2017, 09:57:36 am »
Tradman I agree. Speed is safety. I did 2 pitches in about 30 minutes while simultaneously teaching. No record time, but not exactly slow. We would have been done the whole slide an hr after that.

Look guys, sorry for getting defensive towards anyone who was just goofing or heing sarcastic...it's hard not to be when the vibe being cast at me is that it was my fault that this guy was being a jerk and had zero etiquette.

Not sure what else needs to be said here.