NEClimbs.com forum

General => General Climbing => Topic started by: sneoh on December 11, 2012, 08:02:27 PM

Title: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: sneoh on December 11, 2012, 08:02:27 PM
https://www.rockandice.com/articles/how-to-climb/article/1123-climber-falls-140-feet-and-lives?utm_source=Mountain%2BProject&utm_medium=RSS%2BFeed&utm_campaign=MP%2BFeed-Photo

She (the leader) should already be dead if not for an incredible stroke of good luck.  The Hand of Death was stayed in this case.
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: xcrag_corex on December 11, 2012, 08:31:06 PM
communication people!!!! Lucky girl.... real lucky
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: eyebolter on December 12, 2012, 08:34:59 AM
I see lots of people say "I'm off" when they get to the anchors, yet are planning on being lowered once they thread.  Bad idea.
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: sneoh on December 12, 2012, 09:33:39 AM
We use slight variations of these instead -
"Hold me here while I set up the anchors",
"I am in direct to the anchors, give me some slack but keep me on belay",
"I am in direct to the anchors, take me off belay, I am going to rap",
Before removing oneself from the anchor, "Am I on belay?"

Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: DLottmann on December 12, 2012, 11:17:32 AM
We use slight variations of these instead -
"Hold me here while I set up the anchors",
"I am in direct to the anchors, give me some slack but keep me on belay",
"I am in direct to the anchors, take me off belay, I am going to rap",
Before removing oneself from the anchor, "Am I on belay?"

Way too much on a crowded, noisy, or windy day IMO. Work out the plan before leaving the ground. If the plan changes the only things you should try to communicate are:

"Off Belay" or "Take" "Lower"...

The more words you use the less likely the intention will correctly reach the belayer.
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: sneoh on December 12, 2012, 11:37:51 AM
Way too much on a crowded, noisy, or windy day IMO. Work out the plan before leaving the ground.
Of course. 
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: fresh on December 12, 2012, 12:31:44 PM
When I'm about to be lowered I always grab the other side of the rope (the side coming up from the belayer to the anchor) and hold myself until I feel tension from the belayer. you can easily hold yourself with both hands. you should always communicate plans before leaving the ground, however things don't always go as expected at the anchors. there's often some kind of shouting back and forth, and hence some possibility for miscommunication, so taking additional precautions is necessary.

the man who wrote the book on rock climbing safety just had an accident. hopefully it serves as a reminder to all of us that it can happen to anyone. none of us is immune from mistakes.
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: strandman on December 12, 2012, 02:05:53 PM
TC and i were pretty basic-

I'm on belay until i yell "OFF"

same with rappels
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: DLottmann on December 12, 2012, 02:23:22 PM
When I'm about to be lowered I always grab the other side of the rope (the side coming up from the belayer to the anchor) and hold myself until I feel tension from the belayer...

I do this too, as 90% of the time it is a first time client lowering me... I saw a fellow guide this summer use a shunt tethered to his harness while being lowered at the North End... I wouldn’t use it every time but I thought it was a good idea for those often lowered by new climbers... In this particular case I think it was crucial as the teenager lowering him had no idea how to properly lower... the father stood by out of the system and I actually moved over to provide a backup belay as the kid kept letting go of his brake hand... having the dad maintain a backup behind the kid would have been prudent... once I saw the Shunt I returned to my rope...

TC and i were pretty basic-

I'm on belay until i yell "OFF"

same with rappels

Basic is the way to go when it comes to communication. I’m not “off” until I yell “off”... there are not many things that sound like “off” even in difficult conditions.

As an aside, a long time ago Travis and I climbed a few popular routes on Cathedral using no commands except for “Yo!”. Based on context we always knew what was happening over the course of 10+ pitches... it was kind of mocking the amount of un-necessary communication we had been observing as of late...

Yo = on belay
Yo = I’ve built the anchor and am attached, and you are on belay
Yo = climbing

repeat*

*you probably shouldn’t do this...
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: M_Sprague on December 12, 2012, 03:33:02 PM
Same thing happened to Brady Libby on the second pitch of Rock du Jour at Rumney. His belayer took him off belay from miscommunication (struggling to do so since the rope was loaded  ::) ) and he went whipping, only to be saved by a kink in the rope that caught in a draw. It must have been exciting asking the belayer to put him back on belay without pulling on the rope and loosening the kink holding him  :-\
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: DLottmann on December 12, 2012, 05:19:55 PM
... (struggling to do so since the rope was loaded  ::) ) ...

This would make a great Alpinist cartoon... a climber free-hanging on an overhanging route, a belayer asking the climber to un-weight so he can take him off belay...
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: tradmanclimbz on December 12, 2012, 08:00:27 PM
When sport lowering you should NEVER say off belay or In Direct.   Even the In Direct command gives your belayer an excuse to slack off and start hitting up the cute girl/guy on the next climb. In Direct is information they do NOT need to know! The ONLY commands that you should use are SLACK then TAKE then I AM ON YOU  then LOWER.

As A Belayer you should NEVER, EVER take your leader off belay on a half pitch climb untill you are certain they are really rapping and NOT lowering. If they start pulling up rope simply feed it through the belay device untill they get pissed and yell Off BELAY.
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: DLottmann on December 12, 2012, 08:38:45 PM
^ 100% agree
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: tradmanclimbz on December 12, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
Belaying multi pitch if there is any doubt in the communication I simply feed the rope out through the belay device untill I either can not keep up with it or there is very little rope left.
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: bubbalee on December 14, 2012, 08:19:23 PM
i absolutely agree with tradmanz
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: ELM on December 14, 2012, 09:44:02 PM
Partner "So when you get to the anchor what are we doing?"
Me " I clip in; untie, thread the anchors, retie"
Partner "and ?"
Me; "you lower me..."
Partner "ok"

That's just an example of communication. Something I was reminded of this summer.
He also may have berated me about wearing out rap rings by lowering me...I forgave him...you should too.
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: DLottmann on December 15, 2012, 01:47:20 PM
Partner "So when you get to the anchor what are we doing?"
Me " I clip in; untie, thread the anchors, retie"
Partner "and ?"
Me; "you lower me..."
Partner "ok"

That's just an example of communication. Something I was reminded of this summer.
He also may have berated me about wearing out rap rings by lowering me...I forgave him...you should too.

That is good communication... in the exact scenario I like to do the “sport thread” or whatever it’s called, i.e. pass a bight through, figure-8 on bight locked to belay loop, untie original eight, pull slack through... lower... that way you are actually always on belay, the clipping in is optional based on the stance...
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: sneoh on December 15, 2012, 06:54:14 PM
Good communication indeed, I am going to adopt it.

DMan, with 3/8" qlinks on the anchor bolts, you are not likely able to pass a bight of rope through the links.  Ditto for Fixe steel rap rings.  Unless you are using a 9.4mm single rope (which is 0.5mm thinner than I like to climb on :)).
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: DLottmann on December 15, 2012, 08:19:12 PM
...
DMan, with 3/8" qlinks on the anchor bolts, you are not likely able to pass a bight of rope through the links.  Ditto for Fixe steel rap rings.  Unless you are using a 9.4mm single rope (which is 0.5mm thinner than I like to climb on :)).

Gotcha, and good point...
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: tradmanclimbz on December 15, 2012, 11:33:30 PM
I have no problem stuffing 10.2mm rope through fixe rings and quick links etc without untieing.
Title: Re: So freaking lucky for this climber
Post by: steve weitzler on December 17, 2012, 01:19:26 PM
Have to agree with John. You're on belay until you yell "OFF."