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General => General Climbing => Topic started by: M_Sprague on February 16, 2013, 04:52:10 PM

Title: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 16, 2013, 04:52:10 PM
Some routes just get done over and over again, even ones that are mediocre if they are in the right location. Other fantastic ones never or seldom get repeated. Which neglected NH routes do you think are super good and deserving of more repeats? I am talking well protected ones, not some X rated run out horror show.

Why do you think they don't get action? Too far for most people? Nothing else good around them or no warm-ups? Need a recleaning or fixed gear replaced? Or just freaking hard so people have tried, but can't get up them?

And finally and more importantly, any serious plans to get out and do any of these this year?
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 16, 2013, 05:09:11 PM
No x rated routes ??? I'm sad

Howabout strong R's ??

Or slabs ? no ?

I'm out of ideas
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 16, 2013, 06:11:56 PM
Slabs are OK. It is kind of obvious why death routes don't get repeated often though.

I am usually all into doing FAs or freeing aid routes so I don't have many to mention except the usual suspects out at Greens and Owls. The commitment needed to get to them is probably the main reason they don't get repeated and the fact that many are just hard enough to keep many of the local adventurous climbers from trying them.

One of my routes that I thought was great, but may never have been repeated is 'As the World Burns'. I put it up 12 years ago and thought people would be all over it. It is a wild, steep 2nd pitch 12b sport route right on the Main Cliff of Rumney. Last I was on it, it felt pretty intimidating and I backed off, but the bolts are huge glue-ins and I think it is pretty safe. There are lots of climbers who are more ballsy than me. The only thing I can think of is it is a second pitch and doesn't have fixed draws draped all over it and it has a couple obvious work bolts and a pin that I used for prepping it and never got back to remove. If you clipped them you would get bad rope drag. Get on it folks! You will feel the burn!
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 16, 2013, 06:18:19 PM
I want to get on 'Black Flies Consume Jim Dunn' again, but I am waiting for Dave to replace the bolts and get a TR set up for me  :D It kicks everbody's butts so far.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 16, 2013, 06:59:24 PM
i was thinking of things like candidus on Cathedral 13C R.. Tim says it;s brilliant

Free Finale.. the Arete.. both fine

I do agree about distance though.. how many of the routes at Greens, Owl and the Captain get done ?? Maybe more than we think ?

Or even Sundown back cliff.. SO good
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: sneoh on February 16, 2013, 07:20:34 PM
Mark, this is your description for ATWB on mp.com -
"The Thin Man Anchors can be reached by climbing Underdog or Peanutman and traversing left. From the anchors head left and up a steep face, then make a pumpy traverse right under a roof before pulling it and tackling the final steepness to gain a nice belay ledge. If continuing up The Thing, belay here. If not walk right to the other anchors and bring your second up. Rap from here with a 60m rope. You can lower from the left hand anchors if you have a 70m or tram in back to Thin Man, pull your rope, and rap again."
Not exactly a cakewalk to get down from it (I think "bring your second up" part deters most parties).  Face it, 99% of Rumney climbers are content to do single pitch stuff all day.  I happen to think Rock Du Jour, Stairway To Heaven, High Roller, even Mister Meiner are all very good P2 climbs.  But all these see a mere fraction of traffic compared to much more mediocre one-pitch jobs at the Main Cliff.

Speaking of P2, what is the deal with Via Ferrata?  Does the broken hold make one of the first bolts pretty spooky to clip? I have been wanting to get on it for YEARS now.  Be my rope gun?



Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 16, 2013, 07:56:28 PM
Not too many New Englanders who can do 13c r trad, only a handful that I can think of besides Jay and Tim; Joe Terravecchia, Matt McCormick, Peter Kamitses.

Maybe I have to go back and make the 'World Burns' logistics sound simpler. It is much easier than it sounds, especially with a 70m rope.

Via Ferrata was not bad last time I did it. You just have to do one more move, grabbing the rail past the bolt and then clipping. You shouldn't have any problem if you don't fixate on clipping. It's easier to lead than second actually. It may be a little reachy for you at the start of the overhanging traverse, but i think you should be able to do it. The holds are positive. I think Olga did it no problem.

If you do Via Ferrata, definitely do the third pitch 'The Thing' if you have the time. It is wild and only a 10.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: sneoh on February 16, 2013, 08:03:55 PM
Thanks Mark for the clipping tip on VF.  It does not sound bad at all.
Perhaps I'll get OM to jump on VF with me.  We will probably punch it to the top with P3 assuming we do not pull a block off on P3.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 16, 2013, 09:38:14 PM
Armageddon  12bR- i went 7 times to get it,, I'm really glad it never got more bolts, etc... A lifetime experience. and you won't die.

Does Fall From Grace on Cannon get many repeats ? 12c, good pro, great rock.. ?
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 16, 2013, 10:46:42 PM
i was thinking of things like candidus on Cathedral 13C R.. Tim says it;s brilliant

Free Finale.. the Arete.. both fine

I do agree about distance though.. how many of the routes at Greens, Owl and the Captain get done ?? Maybe more than we think ?

Or even Sundown back cliff.. SO good

Oh yeah.  :)
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 17, 2013, 09:57:51 AM
I want to get on 'Black Flies Consume Jim Dunn' again, but I am waiting for Dave to replace the bolts and get a TR set up for me  :D It kicks everbody's butts so far.

i sure hope this gets a repeat before it's 2oth anny, (this year).  The next pitch may take a while too.

Stairs-  tons of stuff, very high quality
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: terminusnout on February 17, 2013, 11:08:50 PM
Corner Pumping Station at Crack in the Woods, totally awesome steep jug pulling protected by good gear and some fixed pins you can back up.

Black Magic at Cathedral, amazing thin corner to offwidth then to bizarre wide roof climbing. A couple of years ago I noticed that someone had cleaned it but I dont know anyone who has climbed it.

Strando is right, Im surprised that more people dont gravitate toward the Alcohol Wall, above sundown, it has great routes on excellent rock with a variety of grades.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 18, 2013, 10:32:38 AM
Corner Pumping Station at Crack in the Woods, totally awesome steep jug pulling protected by good gear and some fixed pins you can back up.

Crack in the Woods is a crag I really want to get out to this year. Maybe that will get me out to the Painted Wall too to finish my half done project that has been sitting there for years. I have to wait for the birds to leave for that one though.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: DGoguen on February 18, 2013, 11:07:17 AM
I'm not pulling down as hard as you guys but I always thought Crag Y deserved more attention.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 18, 2013, 11:47:21 AM
Crag Y looks good in the picture in Handren's guide, but I have had people who have gone there who have been around and have a good eye for routes say Crag Y and Sundown's Back cliff are disappointing. What is the deal? Autobot and She-Ra look like they would be sweet.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 18, 2013, 03:15:50 PM
Crag Y is pretty good, not great. She Ra is for sure worth doing and Harmonic Convergence ? still has a short bit of aid that will go around 12+.  The thing about Y is that it's really compact and the lines are really down in the trees a bit. kinda oppresive with all the leaves.

Sundown Back cliff or Outback cliff ?? Hyperspace may be overblown, i think it's pretty good. Couple of hard crack projects out there MarK, 12+ for sure.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 18, 2013, 05:05:26 PM
Sundown Back cliff or Outback cliff ??
Outback, sorry. I still haven't been to it in person. I have been to the Alcohol wall, but it didn't excite me to get on anything. It could have just been because it was a mungy day so the psyche factor wasn't high. I want to get to know some of the Kancamagus crags better this year. The Far cliff looked scrappy when I have looked across at it, but Jerry's picture of Chris on Rebellious Youth puts it in another light.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: JChepes on February 18, 2013, 07:08:56 PM
Checked out Outback a couple of years ago and thought it had potential.  Mom has just reclaimed it and it needs to be cleaned up again.  Got lost on that approach so decided not even to try for Crag Y until I got a gps.  Lincoln Crag is a fun little spot that could use a little love also.  How about Hedgehog?  Anything fun/good out there?  Square looks nice if your in the 11 trad range.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: eyebolter on February 18, 2013, 07:13:12 PM
Checked out Outback a couple of years ago and thought it had potential.  Mom has just reclaimed it and it needs to be cleaned up again.  Got lost on that approach so decided not even to try for Crag Y until I got a gps.  Lincoln Crag is a fun little spot that could use a little love also.  How about Hedgehog?  Anything fun/good out there?  Square looks nice if your in the 11 trad range.

Hiked out to the Outback a couple of summers ago, the 12c sport route looks awesome.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: sneoh on February 18, 2013, 08:33:14 PM
Mark, Ward, if you are headed up to Outback and/or Far at Sundown, shoot me an e-mail or PM if you don't mind.  I like to experience more of Sundown, beyond the Main Cliff.  Personally I have not ventured past Eyeless. Shame on me, I know.


Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: smartpig on February 18, 2013, 09:34:54 PM
Echo Crag I have observed over the years. 

Echo Crag has several neglected routes that have good climbing on them but have failed to see much traffic.  I attribute this to the following factors.

  Their R -/+ factor requires astute, advanced/alternate, and creative gear-craft to knock down the R-factor.

  Protection often found in hidden/obscured places but easily by-passed.

  The low frequency of self-thinking adventure climbers visiting Echo that enjoy taking on the complete game of climbing.  Climbers who relish and seek out climbs   that package uncertainty and demand mastery.  Mastery of mental toughness, cunning trad placements, route finding, grunge, loose rock, calculated risk, and embracing the spirit and rewards of moving physically and mentally over such taxing terrain.  These short climbs can be the crucible and gateway to taking the full-on game of Alpinism in the greater ranges or just be the game you play at home.  You get to choose what game you want to play.  Both Echo Crag and Cannon offer similar schooling but each at different scales.  For some, this defines the ingredients of quality climbing. In between these forgotten climbs at Echo you will mostly find guidebook hauling, paint-by-number masses interested in socializing, fun, and climbing with low risk. Personally I embrace both...depends on what game I wish to play and the players I am am playing with.  It's all good really.
 
Nature has begun to reclaim the routes but this offers the benefit of re-in-acting the original ground up, wire brush in hand, first ascent experience.
 
Some neglected routes are visually ugly and/or hard to discern.  Ugly does not necessarily dictate whether the climb, climbs beautifully.

Another filter of suiters is the protection possibilities are not obvious from the ground and do not appeal to the less meek, even though they actual protect quite well.  However, some times, I'm a complete coward and love a good clean sew-up on perfect rock.

I see mostly school/college/guide service groups pounding out the obvious trade routes spaced along the Square Inch Wall, The Shield Wall, and the Grunge Wall. This is because of the high concentration of well protected moderates that have anchors that also serve adjacent lines.

the Poker Pile, The Hermit Wall, and Hone Wall mostly get passed over while the Arete sees a fair amount of traffic (even though the protection is tricky at the start).

Here is my "Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes" from left to right:

Live Free or Die Part 2 (insider info: route was named as a counterpart to my route Live Free or Die in the Adirondacks),
Ed's Weed Be Gone,
Wesley's Aspiration (upper two bolts probably should be replaced by now),
Damn it Jon!,
Jesus Jim!,
Lichen it (needs a good scrubbing down low and we may break down and place a bolt to take the ground fall factor),
Crucial Evidence,
Social Experiment,
Stacked Deck (Poker Pile),
Lord of the Flies,
Hermit Bar,
Hermit Bar and a Motrin,
Spring Line,
Center Line (I may retro-bolt this because at the time I did FA, I had no kit),
Fiddling Jim (ditto on bolting),
Spunky Pig,
NCO Take Off (this got some bolts added last summer and lost its spice- Sykes may remove the extras_we are handling this with the bolter who took liberties)' e),
No Pigs_ got dumbed down by same bandit as NCO Take Off_Sykes removed them for me).
....And the rest of the Hone Wall routes: my favorites: Hurry Up, I,m Hungry, Sling'n The Pitch, Pig's Knuckles*** (will be downgraded to 5.8), Ants in Your Lycra***, Forty Ways to Stay Young.

And one of the coolest adventures in town: the complete girdle traverse of the entire Echo Crag complex.

Get on them lads and lasses!

Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 18, 2013, 10:00:36 PM
Mark, Ward, if you are headed up to Outback and/or Far at Sundown, shoot me an e-mail or PM if you don't mind.  I like to experience more of Sun

down, beyond the Main Cliff.  Personally I have not ventured past Eyeless. Shame on me, I know.

Even at the end of main cliff-
Gill's Groove
Shadowline

BackCliff
Pressure Drop
Interzone
Love Crack
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: JChepes on February 19, 2013, 09:00:16 PM
Don't forget about Profile above Echo.  Natural High is a great route with a wonderful position. Some interesting rock up on that dome.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 19, 2013, 09:51:51 PM
There's high quality routes on the Alcohol Wall.

A mere 5 minutes past Shadowline.

So get yourself a 30pak and get climbing you shleps.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 20, 2013, 09:28:29 AM
But don't drop any beers from the ledge,,, it's a ways down.

There's even routes i can do there
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: pappy on February 22, 2013, 12:12:20 PM
But don't drop any beers from the ledge,,, it's a ways down.
There's even routes i can do there

I know the feeling. It sucks getting old.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 22, 2013, 12:49:21 PM
Jamie, If you actually want folks to climb it so you don't have to bring the wire brush every time you want to climb it a little hint. Groundfall at the grade is not not a good sell.... :-[
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 22, 2013, 01:45:08 PM
Groundfall at the grade is not not a good sell.... :-[

Not for nothing but..... the thread title is seldom repeated high quality routes. Perhaps it is seldom repeated BECAUSE it has ground fall potential.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 22, 2013, 02:19:11 PM
what i am getting at is that with the exception of slab it is not really high quality if it has groundfall @ the grade.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 22, 2013, 09:21:00 PM
Sorry Trad.. that's bullshit... serious fall potential is just another component  of some climbs. I guesss if it's only done once a decade, then it should be retroed ???  Fuck no it should not.

Stage Fright
Candidus
hobbit
Auto clave
  ???
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 22, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
It may well be a great potentual line on a great piece of stone but if the FA fucked it all up and put the bolts in the wrong places its a hack job not a high quality route. 8)
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 22, 2013, 09:38:58 PM
What if there's no bolts ?

Long live the plummet    >:(
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 22, 2013, 10:09:42 PM
If there are no bolts and the gear is at least reasonable and the rock is good and the possition is good then it is a high quality route. If there are no bolts and the gear sucks, the runout is at the grade with an ankle severing flake 30ft below the mantle to the gear placement it is most definatly NOT a high quality route. It is a horror show that the FA should either fix or give permission for it to be fixed.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: pappy on February 22, 2013, 10:14:52 PM
If there are no bolts and the gear is at least reasonable and the rock is good and the possition is good then it is a high quality route. If there are no bolts and the gear sucks, the runout is at the grade with an ankle severing flake 30ft below the mantle to the gear placement it is most definatly NOT a high quality route. It is a horror show that the FA should either fix or give permission for it to be fixed.

You can have any opinion you wish about the quality of a climb, but do not give me this 'should' BS. The FA may very well think nothing needs fixing.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 22, 2013, 10:30:19 PM
Well if it climbs the way that I described it and the FA feels that it should not be fixed then the route is a piece of crap that will never be a high quality route simply due to the FA's vanity..
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 22, 2013, 10:41:10 PM
What if there's no bolts ?

Long live the plummet    >:(

Rock on fuckinn Strand.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 22, 2013, 10:49:53 PM
Well if it climbs the way that I described it and the FA feels that it should not be fixed then the route is a piece of crap that will never be a high quality route simply due to the FA's vanity..

Vanity? Are you shitting me?

Your level of comfort is lesser than another climber's level of comfort. That's what it is Trad. At least with me.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 22, 2013, 11:22:01 PM
Read what I wrote. Not slab, 30ft runout  At The Grade over an ankle Severing flake. If I put up a rout like that it will never be a classic or even a high quality route. It will suck and be a waste of good stone.  If  someone requested to add gear to the route and I tell them to pound sand I am simply stroking my own ego. There is a difference between spicy and stupid. If I put up a spicy route that folks aspire to climb and actually get on it and climb it and some one requests a retro I will and have told them that it climbs pretty good the way it is and I will not change it.  that is a whole different scenario.

The way our rules work the FA gets to dictate how a route climbs for at least their lifetime and often much longer.  Personaly  I prefer to put up routs that get climbed and climb well. I actually like to repete my FA's and SHARE the fun times with other climbers.  I do not want to be that cranky old man whos claim to fame is a seldom if never repeted scarefest...

When I need to feed the rat real bad I solo and ice climb and solo ice etc.  I get my fun without imposing my will on every climber who comes after me.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 22, 2013, 11:35:14 PM
To that I say there is more than enough rock around the planet to satisfy varying degrees of ballsack.
If you are too intimidated for whatever reason to climb a route, just move along and find another one.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 22, 2013, 11:45:10 PM
why not simply solo or ice climb rather than impose your will on other climbers by putting up total scarefests.

 I just read the Jack Roberts story on the taco. climbing is pleanty dangerous enough without putting up rock climbs with ledge fall and groundfall...
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 22, 2013, 11:48:31 PM
" it will never be a classic or even a high quality route. It will suck and be a waste of good stone."

Just had to post on this line. What a crock-o-shit.

1. Never be? Who appointed you the judge of what is "classic" or "high quality" and what is not?
2. Waste of stone? Methinks that sweeping unprotected rock is magnificient. To be able to climb it? Means getting the MAXIMUM VALUE from the stone. 
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 22, 2013, 11:55:49 PM
So Trad- your gig is seeking out new routes. Which is cool. I've got no problem with whatever your style is on whatever available rock you can find.

Do you make a point to log your routes? FA's ?

If so, you're calling the kettle black when it comes to vanity.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: Admin Al on February 23, 2013, 07:33:08 AM
I've never understood why someone would go to the trouble of cleaning an bolting a route and then NOT logging it. Just me i guess...
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: eyebolter on February 23, 2013, 07:48:21 AM
I agree that the runout routes should be left as monuments.  However, the quality issue does come into play then.  We don't live in the desert.   Routes that don't get climbed are good quality lichen habitat, the exception being the overhanging stuff (most of which is sport) and the slabs that are swept by snowslides, keeping them relatively lichen-free.   The stuff in the 70-90 degree range is lichen headquarters. 
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: mopowers on February 23, 2013, 08:36:15 AM
Bloodsuckers, Tachycardia and Jupiter at Owls Head in Benton are all rarely repeated and ultra classic in my mind. Each is multi-pitch and for the most part sport bolted.

Jupiter probably sees the most traffic because its on the easier side of 5.10.

Tachycardia is hard 5.10 but goes directly up a very intimidating looking face for four pitches. I think the fact that there is no road map for the route is why people avoid it, most are just not willing to explore.

Bloodsuckers has a stopper crux 20' off the ground, 5.12 slab that is difficult to french free. Most probably dont get past that point.
I often wonder if Owls Head would attract more visitors if there was a guide book.

I am guessing the harder routes at The Ocean, Mt. Dicky are rarely repeated with a true redpoint. the routes are difficult, slaby and its relatively a long approach.

Now am i allowed to add seldom repeated routes in Vt?  ;)

 
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 23, 2013, 08:54:38 AM
I did a route once GU at about 5.7+ I lowered off and bounce tested my gear on the way down. Most of it ripped. the climb did not get repeted for a year.  I talked a few folks into climbing it that following summer and they thought it was a bag of crap and were pissed at me for trying to kill them. I went back up and placed a single bolt on lead (not that it would have made any difference had I placed it on rapell) A bunch of people led the climb that week, the climb continues to see lots of action and  and I have had sevrel people tell me that the climb Extra Stout 5.8- is one of their favorite climbs. A single well placed bolt changed a bag of crap into a stellar climb.

 The same crag, The Flying Groundhog 10+ has crap gear. With the addition of a single bolt it would  be one of the best single pitch thin face leads in the north east. As far as I know it has only been led twice. We headpointed it and a pretty strong boulderer Guy Altzentzer led it after  TR rehersal a few years later.  I played god and made the choice to keep that section of the cliff bolt free.  I feel it is the right choice  yet that  climb is a non descript TR problem instead of the ultra classic it would be with the addition of a single bolt.
 When it comes to summer rock climbing Protection does matter. just ask your mom :P
Winter alpine and ice routes is a totally different story. Due to the fleeting nature of the weather and the total crazyness of ice/alpine and the fact that lichen, choss, mud and frozen turf are all perfect mediums for ice tools and sheep shagging crazy people it is completly acceptable to label an unreapeted death rout as an instant classic 8)
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 23, 2013, 09:55:45 AM
Define X-

I say you die or wish you were. Not many routes that fit this

Armageddon on Cathedral is not X, it's close but not X. and YES it is a classic, just ask the 4 or 5 people who have led it,why go 7  times for a crap line ? (me)

oneof the route mentioned earlier is a f/a of mine. it has good pro, bolted on lead and on site, the rock is great. Why no repeat in 20 years ? one- it's pretty far from the road and two- it's pretty hard.

Guesss it's not quality  , ask  the people who have tried it
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: Admin Al on February 23, 2013, 10:33:37 AM
I often wonder if Owls Head would attract more visitors if there was a guide book.

I thought you were working on remedying that...
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: Admin Al on February 23, 2013, 10:35:39 AM
Now am i allowed to add seldom repeated routes in Vt?  ;)

absolutely...
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: smartpig on February 25, 2013, 11:38:07 AM
I often wonder if Owls Head would attract more visitors if there was a guide book.

I thought you were working on remedying that...

Jon Sykes and I are working it hard and have about 60% in draft form.  Goal is to get done by November.  To follow along and see some fun pics try this link to the Facebook page I put together (please like and participate, especially if you have new route information, question, and comments. (I will be editing for appropriate content).  https://www.facebook.com/groups/valhallapublishing/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/valhallapublishing/)
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 25, 2013, 12:54:39 PM
You have that facebook page set so you have to log in in order to look at it.  I am not a facebook member and don't plan on being one.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 25, 2013, 06:00:23 PM
i agree- if i join facebook, I may see Sycho !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: mopowers on February 25, 2013, 08:17:38 PM
Black Flies at Green's is an unrepeated route that's often on my mind. The fact that it has never seen a 2nd is a big attraction. It has everything i look for in a route, difficult slab with interesting features to break it up. Its also a bit spicy but not crazy. Mark, i am looking forward to go out there once the weather permits.

I also find many of the Bill Lowther routes on Cathedral and Whitehorse intriguing. Its seems many of them are rarely climbed. I would love to explore the lines but something about Cathedral slab, i just dont have much game. I think its a lot more slick and polished than i am used to. Not enough loose grit and lichen i guess.

Another amazing line that came to me is Spare Ribs at owls Head. I did it a few years ago and i would not be one bit surprised if it had not been done in 20 years. All the fixed gear is completely rotted hardware store junk which makes it a stupid lead at this point. After a few hundred dollars worth of stainless steel and a few days of work, i would consider this one of the best multi-pitch routes i have ever done.

 
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 26, 2013, 09:34:21 AM
SpareRibs is that 11+ (cough) right ?
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 26, 2013, 11:53:53 AM
A tough double on Whitehorse would be unwanted Guests and then lowther's  answered prayers.. both around 12b/c..neither gets done these days.. awesome climbing
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: smartpig on February 26, 2013, 07:30:37 PM
Eagle Cliff has some "Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes," with the best views of Franconia Notch, hands down!
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 26, 2013, 08:18:49 PM
Are those up on that wall where Mallary put up some routes? Every year  I start out the season thinking when it gets hot I should go up and check them out, but then end up getting tied up with other stuff, so still haven't seen them.

I wish somebody would post up information about the cliffs in that area on Mtnproject. Information for that part of the state always seems to get hoarded for an up an coming guide that never seems to appear. Handren's guide proves that good quality ones sell even if information is online. I think it serves as advertising, though having the guide available as a commercial app too is a good idea IMO.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: smartpig on February 26, 2013, 10:13:31 PM
Are those up on that wall where Mallary put up some routes? Every year  I start out the season thinking when it gets hot I should go up and check them out, but then end up getting tied up with other stuff, so still haven't seen them.

I wish somebody would post up information about the cliffs in that area on Mtnproject. Information for that part of the state always seems to get hoarded for an up an coming guide that never seems to appear. Handren's guide proves that good quality ones sell even if information is online. I think it serves as advertising, though having the guide available as a commercial app too is a good idea IMO.

Hi Mark,
Eagle Cliff is the largest cliff south (right looking up from the road) along what is known as "Hound's Hump Ridge", near where the Greenleaf trail hooks up through a notch known by locals as "Eagles Pass."  At the pass, the Greenleaf trail actually traverses under a climbable cliff, but the climbers bootleg trail starts about 200' before the "Pass" cliff and climbs steeply up hill through some rugged terrain for about 15 minutes to the right side of Eagle Cliff.  It can be tough to find because the lack of traffic. 

Mallery's (and Sykes, and one of mine) routes are up hill and to the right side of the scree gully where the Eaglet Spire is.  If you known where the Garcia Vega ice climb is, then you will see Mallery's 3 or 4 sport routes to the right (the easiest route on that wall, at 5.10b, is Sykes's).  If you go down and right of this steep wall there is a cool arete/ridge 5.11 that ends up, if I remember correctly, Just above one of Mallery's routes.  I have a poorly protected and some what loose 5.9 route to the right of this (with some bolts and cleaning could be an ok line- never got back to it though).     

To the left of Garcia Vega are three decent 5.9's (trad and bolts) put up by Sykes (years ago now). 

Sykes and I are actively working hard on pulling the book together with the goal of having it ready for sale by mid-November 2013.  The Notches will be a great companion book to Jerry Handren's, North Conway Rock Climbs, and complete Webster's vision of a Western Whites volume. This book will cover route descriptions for Crawford, Zealand, Franconia, Kinsman, and Olivarian Notches.

Cheers!
P.S. check out Al's review of Jon Sykes book: http://www.neclimbs.com/index.php?PageName=review&ReviewID=20010801 (http://www.neclimbs.com/index.php?PageName=review&ReviewID=20010801)
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 26, 2013, 10:24:25 PM
Thanks, and I am really looking forward to your guidebook. I know they take a lot more work to produce than many realize. I will be getting at least one copy for my library.  ;)
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: smartpig on February 26, 2013, 11:31:56 PM
Just came across this beauty in the old archives!
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 27, 2013, 08:20:36 AM
Sycho and mallery at the same cliff is troublesome.. at best.. :)
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: eyebolter on February 27, 2013, 09:11:04 AM
I've got a write up that Mallery gave me of that crag Mark.  I haven't gotten up there either but it is supposed to be good, especially when it warm down south.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: kenreville on February 27, 2013, 03:10:39 PM
Tell Sykes he gives me a finger like that, I'll tear it off and shove it up his ass. <he-he-he>
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: strandman on February 27, 2013, 03:42:49 PM
Ken- why make him happy ?? tear off the whole hand
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: pappy on February 27, 2013, 03:59:59 PM
Ken- why make him happy ?? tear off the whole hand

 :D :D :D oh crap, just peed my pants again.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: M_Sprague on February 28, 2013, 09:16:42 AM
Jamie, are you going to have much bouldering in the new guide? People over on MP are asking about it. http://www.mountainproject.com/v/franconia-notch-bouldering/108007441#a_108018505 (http://www.mountainproject.com/v/franconia-notch-bouldering/108007441#a_108018505)
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: mopowers on February 28, 2013, 02:13:20 PM
Quote
Tell Sykes he gives me a finger like that, I'll tear it off and shove it up his ass.

Oh man, the spit is going to fly.
Title: Re: Seldom or Never Repeated high quality NH routes
Post by: mopowers on February 28, 2013, 02:24:16 PM
I have been up to the cliff with the sport routes by Eagle Cliff . I did not climb any of them but the whole wall did look good.

 We ended up climbing a route i believe is called Birdland right in that same area. If i remember right the book gave it .11 b or c. The crux was protected by three pins in a 15'. Every one of those damn pins fell out when i clipped them. Had no choice but to keep climbing, needless to say i was gripped. I bet that route does not get done very often. I do remember the second pitch being much more enjoyable.