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General => General Climbing => Topic started by: Admin Al on June 10, 2013, 06:10:25 pm

Title: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 10, 2013, 06:10:25 pm
Over the past several days someone took a rope from a climb that was being worked on over on the right side of Humphrey's Ledge. The rope was not abandoned. It has been there for a week or two ehile my friends the Perez's and I were working on some new routes. It was on a climb that had obviously been cleaned and bolted. I'd like to give someone the benefit of the doubt, but it's tough. I can't for the life of me understand why someone would do that and right now I'm pretty PO'd about it.

If you took it, or know who did, I would really appreciate it being returned. You can leave it at IME or PM me and I will tell you where to drop it off. It's not that the rope is new or anything, but I want it back.

Thanks...
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: kenreville on June 10, 2013, 07:15:15 pm
I hope you get your rope back Al.

Keep in mind though, if you don't get it back, the f***face that stole it will get chopped and die. From the very same rope.

Karma makes the world go round.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 10, 2013, 07:26:48 pm
the rope itself belongs to Joe & Judy Perez, but we were all 3 using it. of course it's not the rope itself, it's the principle....
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: tradmanclimbz on June 11, 2013, 06:43:08 am
Just to play devils advocate there is also the principal of not leaveing fixed ropes on projects?
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 11, 2013, 07:07:01 am
Just to play devils advocate there is also the principal of not leaveing fixed ropes on projects?

That's BS... I've left fixed ropes on projects off & on for over 20 years and have seen other folks doing the same for much longer. And what gives ANYONE the right to take another persons rope? That's ridiculous!!! To me it's no different than stealing pins from Arno's corner!
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: DaveR on June 11, 2013, 07:32:27 am
Just to play devils advocate there is also the principal of not leaveing fixed ropes on projects?

Imo ropes should not be left on projects but that is a topic for another thread.

That being said, taking someones rope makes you an asshole! I hope you get your rope back Al.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: mopowers on June 11, 2013, 07:51:52 am
Just to play devils advocate there is also the principal of not leaveing fixed ropes on projects?

Imo ropes should not be left on projects but that is a topic for another thread.

That being said, taking someones rope makes you an asshole! I hope you get your rope back Al.


Some tough love Al. If you take your rope home at night you wont risk losing it.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: frik on June 11, 2013, 08:47:17 am
Where is this "Arno's Corner" people are talking about?
How many pins are in there?
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: eyebolter on June 11, 2013, 08:54:49 am
I've had more stuff taken than I can list.  Ropes, draws, gear, a bag with bolts in it.  It comes with the territory.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: WharfRat on June 11, 2013, 10:44:32 am
Seems pretty easy to just pull the rope coil it and leave it next to the climb. From there it is two seconds to IME if you think someone else might just take it so why not you.

Sure it is kinda rude to leave a rope on a climb for others to deal with working the route  or not. You do not own the dam rock might wanna think about that.

Been with people a few times when they bootied left gear. Imop all those time it could had been dealt with differently very easily. Never felt very good about it and wished i had not been there tbh. Bad Karma imop but i am not gonna argue with my buddy that i think he is a dick.I never understood someone that got off on free stuff that is not theirs but what are you gonna do.

Ow well first world problems right....
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 11, 2013, 10:52:04 am
FYI - it is a project, not just someone trying to get up a climb...

I guess I have a different take on stuff like this. I just don't take other peoples stuff! This is not like leaving a beiner on a bolt, or a cam that someone couldn't get out. This was a rope left on what was obviously a new route, drill dust and the like, in an area that is infrequently visited.

KARMA...
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: WharfRat on June 11, 2013, 11:02:34 am
Al i agree i am not at all for taking other peoples stuff either.

My point if it was missed was that i am sure it was very clear the route was being worked. Pretty sure i may even know the route you are talking about and if it is that route although you can not see the anchors the climb is only 20-30 feet long. Pretty easy to scamper up the side of it in that crack to get a good look at the anchor.

Imop weather it be a stuck cam a rope whatever i say leave it unless it is sun bleached and looks clearly abandoned. When i see other people take shit even legit booty i always think to myself how do you know the knucklehead that left that will not be back tomorrow for it. And it is not mine plain and simple so i do not belong taking it. Sure if it is in my may i will clean it and leave it at the base of the climb if i am going back. If not i will just do everything i can to leave it..

Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: M_Sprague on June 11, 2013, 11:31:21 am
Personally, If I thought a friend was making a dink move I would tell them. Who better to let them know?
 
People are way to quick to make excuses for stealing. If there is a fixed rope that isn't causing problems by being in the way or been hanging there for ages and looking especially ugly or dangerous, leave it alone. If you must take it down, leave it coiled up hanging nearby or otherwise try to get it back to the owner unless it is clearly trash. The same goes for a neatly hidden stash. Sometimes it is just impossible to carry everything in and out every day.

That being said, I think it is obviously incumbent on everyone  to keep their fixed gear  to a minimum and their stash neat and well hidden. Heaps of tarps, rotting crashpads etc. is not OK. It shouldn't be wrecking other's nature experience. To get all uptight about an occasional fixed rope is just being anal though. If it was your own rope up would you be shuddering in disgust?

Hope you get the rope back, Al.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: DLottmann on June 11, 2013, 12:44:42 pm
A coiled rope left on the ground I would assume was forgotten, and I wouldn't think twice about grabbing it and posting here in the Lost & Found.

A rope left on the cliff is a grey area. If you are coming back almost daily AND it isn't easy to re-rig the rope back on the project I can understand it. I would suggest coiling anything left on the ground, and maybe leaving a phone number on a index card or something attached to the rope.

No matter how you "feel" about it, you are leaving gear in the mountains. I can't stand people stashing snowshoes in the woods at the base of Lion's Head steeps. You might find them back at the Lost & Found at PNVC, so stash them out of sight at least... sorry, kinda different topic...

I hope you get the rope back. But just because we're climbers doesn't mean LNT shouldn't be attempted...
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: DaveR on June 11, 2013, 12:48:28 pm
I've had more stuff taken than I can list.  Ropes, draws, gear, a bag with bolts in it.  It comes with the territory.

Thats what sucks. It should not come with the territory! IMO if you are taking gear off of a route that is NOT clearly abandoned you are stealing. WTF - This wasn't even an established route. There are a******s in every group including climbers.

Late on a Friday afternoon a few years ago I left draws on a route I had been working to come back for the RP the next day. We are at the base of the climb the next morning at 8:15 and my draws were gone!
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: steve weitzler on June 11, 2013, 01:20:56 pm
I would agree that people who steal gear suck. However, knowing that there are people who suck and upon seeing an unoccupied rope may be just too tempting for them to by-pass' the only way to prevent theft would be to take the rope off the route at the end of the day and take it home with you. If I was worried or thought my rope would be ripped off I certainly wouldn't leave it there. This all being said, I suggest we start a "buy Al a new rope" fund. I will contribute the first $25.00. We certainly could raise the money for the poor fellow. Considering all he does. We could print T-Shirts to sell; "Al's Rope Is Strong" printed in blue and yellow. I am coming up to North Conway this weekend to run the Mt. Washington Road Race so maybe Saturday night we could have the kickoff event. Maybe a barbeque at Al's house. I am sure he can find a live band to perform. Al, I like Coronas and big burgers. See you all at 7. What do we all think?
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: DaveR on June 11, 2013, 01:46:11 pm
Al's house at 7, I'll bring salad! :)
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: steve weitzler on June 11, 2013, 01:48:17 pm
I'll bring bourbon!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 11, 2013, 03:21:58 pm
at the first couple of sentences I thought you were serious, then I realized...Steve...naaah!

a party might be something for the fall tho... HMMMM

I would agree that people who steal gear suck. However, knowing that there are people who suck and upon seeing an unoccupied rope may be just too tempting for them to by-pass' the only way to prevent theft would be to take the rope off the route at the end of the day and take it home with you. If I was worried or thought my rope would be ripped off I certainly wouldn't leave it there. This all being said, I suggest we start a "buy Al a new rope" fund. I will contribute the first $25.00. We certainly could raise the money for the poor fellow. Considering all he does. We could print T-Shirts to sell; "Al's Rope Is Strong" printed in blue and yellow. I am coming up to North Conway this weekend to run the Mt. Washington Road Race so maybe Saturday night we could have the kickoff event. Maybe a barbeque at Al's house. I am sure he can find a live band to perform. Al, I like Coronas and big burgers. See you all at 7. What do we all think?
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 11, 2013, 03:30:38 pm
look folks - it's NOT about the price of the rope. we've been working on some lines, one is partly done, several are on the way. we left the rope up there 'cause it makes it a lot easier to get up to where we are working. WTF is the deal here? I don't understand the issue. this was OBVIOUSLY someone's rope. not a new one, but a serviceable rope. whether it was there a week or a month, IT DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU. it was hanging from a 2-bolt anchor, not caught in a tree! it wasn't coiled on the ground like someone forgot it. and if it was on the ground, maybe dropping it a IME or posting something in the L&F might be the RIGHT THING TO DO.

LOOK, someone picked off a 5 year old rope that we were using to get up and down on an obscure part of a local cliff so we could work on some new routes. IMNSHO there is no excuse for that. the rope wasn't there for months, for a year, for WHATEVER. there is always the possibility that it wasn't a climber that took it, however there were a bunch of footprints around that area that weren't ours and from what I understand some looked like rock shoe prints. I don't know the rational and I honestly don't care. I'm saying that IMNSHO (and I know I'm probably not all that humble) I think that this action SUCKS.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 11, 2013, 03:32:14 pm
DMan... I don't get it. you have a problem with people stashing their snowshoes at the base of LH? come on man... I think that's ridiculous.

so I'm supposed to leave a 3x5 on the rope with my name & phone # on it...COME ON! get real...

and BTW, I don't think that there is any "gray area" in this.


A coiled rope left on the ground I would assume was forgotten, and I wouldn't think twice about grabbing it and posting here in the Lost & Found.

A rope left on the cliff is a grey area. If you are coming back almost daily AND it isn't easy to re-rig the rope back on the project I can understand it. I would suggest coiling anything left on the ground, and maybe leaving a phone number on a index card or something attached to the rope.

No matter how you "feel" about it, you are leaving gear in the mountains. I can't stand people stashing snowshoes in the woods at the base of Lion's Head steeps. You might find them back at the Lost & Found at PNVC, so stash them out of sight at least... sorry, kinda different topic...

I hope you get the rope back. But just because we're climbers doesn't mean LNT shouldn't be attempted...
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: eyebolter on June 11, 2013, 03:46:24 pm
At Farley, most routes, even trad ones, have two bolt anchors with fixed biners.   It just makes it a hell of a lot easier and quicker for everyone.  Every now and then a bunch of the biners will be gone, probably by some cheap bastard, so you have to kink the shit out of your rope by lowering off the single quick-links.  Really pisses me off as I've left a ton of my old biners on my new routes.   

Some people are just ignorant. and think that stuff is free for the taking, and others know it is wrong and do it anyway.


Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: frik on June 11, 2013, 04:13:18 pm
Where is this "Farley ledge" folks are talking about?

And are those fixed biners in decent condition?
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: OldEric on June 11, 2013, 04:37:09 pm
I propose we ask Mr Nichols for his opinion.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: tradmanclimbz on June 11, 2013, 05:30:37 pm
Don't get me wrong/ Stealing the rope was BS.  on the other hand leaveing fixed ropes is not something I have  gotten comfortable with yet.  Kind of figure that the price of admission is getting the rope up there and I also worry about the impression left on non climbers that may somehow affect access at one point or annother.... additionaly I am usually so paranoid that someone will steal my project that the absolute last thing I will do is leave anything there that will make it easier to get on the climb.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: M_Sprague on June 11, 2013, 06:24:44 pm
I've got an old rope hanging up way out in the middle of nowhere. I think it has been up over 3 years now if the ice hasn't ripped it down yet. I should tell Dman or Tradman where it is so they will take it down and carry it out for me.  :P Unfortunately I have to haul another rope out now to get where it is anchored because I wouldn't trust Jumaring up it anymore. Don't worry. I will get it out of there this year. Three years is a little long even for me.  ;D (It'a place that gets maybe a visitor once a year if lucky)
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: strandman on June 11, 2013, 06:37:41 pm
Who ever took the rope clearly knew it was not there fucking rope !! Like stealing pins and biners and.. it's theft and the perps should beaten

Fuck'm

Hey mark- the bolts near the popular ice climb ?? ;)
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: kenreville on June 11, 2013, 06:39:12 pm
Well that totally sux the bag DaveR. Talk about a letdown.

I imagine I'd be so pissed that I'd either walk away in disgust or damn go for it ground up.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: strandman on June 11, 2013, 06:44:16 pm
Let's not get too crazy ken
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: M_Sprague on June 11, 2013, 06:56:19 pm
Another spot  John, but thanks for reminding me of that project, another one I have to get back and place a couple more bolts and anchors on to finish. If things are dry this weekend that might be a good one to do after I run into Owls. Not so far out in the woods for a quick run in and I just got some more 1/2 SS Rawls. I have a good name in my head for it and I want to be able to use it.
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: ridgerunner on June 11, 2013, 07:40:34 pm
Frik
You made me laugh really hard...twice ! I still am...
:-)
Title: It's not "missing" some d!ckhead stole it...
Post by: ed_esmond on June 11, 2013, 09:54:27 pm
Al,

Sorry about your rope, but as Ward said, "It comes with the territory…"

Over the years,  I've had a bunch of "new routing" gear/equipment stolen and I completely understand how infuriating  it can be. 

My advise: suck it up and get over it.  It's just what some d!ckhead climbers do…

I think there are two type of "climbers" who pull this kind of shit. The first are truly, totally clueless wankers who see a couple of crappy biners on an anchor or a 5 year old "not even good for top-roping" rope and think, "Booty!"

Personally, for these guys; I hope they use the rope, they fall on it, it breaks and they die…

That'll teach them…

The second group is by far worse… They're not "clueless wankers."  They know exactly what they're doing.  They know they're stealing from another climber. And, they do it anyway…

Even worse, they think it's funny: "So, Where is this "Arno's Corner" people are talking about? How many pins are in there?" And "Where is this "Farley ledge" folks are talking about? And are those fixed biners in decent condition?"

Maybe I'm wrong and a guy who would say something like this isn't the type to steal from Al and the Perez's, but then again, maybe he is…

But, more importantly, they thinks it's funny…

Oh, I almost forgot: "HA HA…"

The second thing with this group is that they know what they are doing is "peeing" on you.

I hate to tell you this Al, but; the guy who stole your rope, was pissing all over you and everything you were trying to do...

Personally, I find that pretty sad.

They can't produce anything themselves, but they'll piss on anything someone else does...

ed e

ps.  Have you ever wondered why there are "secret crags?"
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 11, 2013, 10:23:58 pm
good points Ed....
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: DLottmann on June 11, 2013, 10:27:52 pm
DMan... I don't get it. you have a problem with people stashing their snowshoes at the base of LH? come on man... I think that's ridiculous.

so I'm supposed to leave a 3x5 on the rope with my name & phone # on it...COME ON! get real...

and BTW, I don't think that there is any "gray area" in this.


A coiled rope left on the ground I would assume was forgotten, and I wouldn't think twice about grabbing it and posting here in the Lost & Found.

A rope left on the cliff is a grey area. If you are coming back almost daily AND it isn't easy to re-rig the rope back on the project I can understand it. I would suggest coiling anything left on the ground, and maybe leaving a phone number on a index card or something attached to the rope.

No matter how you "feel" about it, you are leaving gear in the mountains. I can't stand people stashing snowshoes in the woods at the base of Lion's Head steeps. You might find them back at the Lost & Found at PNVC, so stash them out of sight at least... sorry, kinda different topic...

I hope you get the rope back. But just because we're climbers doesn't mean LNT shouldn't be attempted...

OK, first off, I’ll donate the next $25 to Al’s new rope.

Second, and probably another topic, leaving snowshoes on a highly visible highly trafficked trail below tree-line to summit a peak 2 miles away is moronic for two reasons;

1) It’s easy as hell to hide them out of sight to make it a non-issue

2) You just might not come back down the way you thought you would...

2a) Snowshoes don’t weigh much, so strap em’ on your pack...

Summiting Mount Washington in a dayhike in winter does not require caching gear, but if you really need to, just put it out of sight... that’s all I’m sayin’...

I’ve found food “caches" ravaged by rodents on the trail, full water bottles, trekking poles, etc on Winter Lion’s Head... Even found a pack at split rock because the person felt the summit was close enough to carry on without it... in a whiteout... effin’ stupid...

Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: DLottmann on June 11, 2013, 10:34:04 pm
I’m not saying I support someone stealing a rope... but let me ask you this Al, since I’m not familiar with the route this was fixed on...

How hard would it have been to take the rope home and reset it on the days you were working it?

Obviously Humprey’s is a much more popular crag than it was 20 years ago, and new climbers are visiting it... if everyone picked a new line and left a rope it could get out of hand... sure, I’m dramatizing it a bit, but there should be some way of identifying an abandoned rope, and a current working fixed rope. I don’t think a dated note attached to the rope is too much to ask, and it would at least establish whether the rope was “stolen”, or removed with other intentions...

“Project in use, 6-15-13, please do not remove” would be enough...
Title: Re: missing rope
Post by: Admin Al on June 11, 2013, 11:11:04 pm
#1 - neither the Perez's nor I need another rope. we have plenty. it's not the $$, it's the principle of the matter...

#2 - when I'm cleaning & bolting & trying things out, I don't want to have to aid a pitch all over again just to get back up there and I guarantee that you wouldn't either...

#3 - the far right side of Humphrey's is definitely off the beaten path. leaving a rope up there for 2 months, or heck - the whole summer - isn't going to inconvenience anyone. until we went there this spring I doubt anyone had climbed there in years.

#4 - when was the last time someone abandoned a rope on a cliff, other than Handren & company up at Frankenstein? it just doesn't happen.

anyway, I started this thread to make a point. I did that and I'm done.

case & thread closed...