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General => Rock Climbing: Trad => Topic started by: lucky luke on August 19, 2013, 09:48:33 PM

Title: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: lucky luke on August 19, 2013, 09:48:33 PM
many climber in the old time used to train by climbing two or three route at cathedral or Canon just to stay in good shape. I saw some of them climbing just aside us and asking the permission to pass us and going up as fast as they appear from the bottom. climbing six pitches of 150 feet is the equivalent of a building of 90 stairs, a good exercise and healthy activity.  If we think that it is more fun and harder than climbing stairs, it is harder to understand that few party "snake the cliff" just to have fun with a good partner.

Today, we saw group of people whit a leader who power a movement without too much technique, like an elephant in a circus. He amuse the public, doing hardly two or three pitches, if it is not staying all day in one or two moves, and falling again and again, disturbing the wildlife and neighbor around the area.

I use the word snake because they are very much like them going up a cliff with the cold and rapid approach of the animal, and the rope zigzagging fluently is very similar to a snake. As they do a new move at each three or five feet, they use a lot of different technique and they had a lot of experience. I remember looking at four team in a week end and they always use the same spot to place there pro even if they on sight the route. They are skill in technique and in the way they protect themselves. When you asked them a question, they can't answer because there reaction on the rock was instinctive, the survival instinct of an animal in the wild.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: sneoh on August 19, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
The purpose of this post escapes me.  Sorry.  Really.  Is there a question somewhere in there?
I think Tradman does plenty of "snaking" for fun and exercise at his fave Vt crags.  And I am sure he is not alone in this practice. 
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: Admin Al on August 20, 2013, 07:16:34 AM
I must say that I have no idea what this is about...
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: DGoguen on August 20, 2013, 08:23:30 AM
I must say that I have no idea what this is about...

Maybe true, but I guarantee where it's headed!
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: frik on August 20, 2013, 08:35:25 AM
Brilliant!

Luke, you have surpassed all expectations....
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: JakeDatc on August 20, 2013, 09:15:10 AM
many climber in the old time used to train by climbing two or three route at cathedral or Canon just to stay in good shape. I saw some of them climbing just aside us and asking the permission to pass us and going up as fast as they appear from the bottom. climbing six pitches of 150 feet is the equivalent of a building of 90 stairs, a good exercise and healthy activity.  If we think that it is more fun and harder than climbing stairs, it is harder to understand that few party "snake the cliff" just to have fun with a good partner.

Today, we saw group of people whit a leader who power a movement without too much technique, like an elephant in a circus. He amuse the public, doing hardly two or three pitches, if it is not staying all day in one or two moves, and falling again and again, disturbing the wildlife and neighbor around the area.

I use the word snake because they are very much like them going up a cliff with the cold and rapid approach of the animal, and the rope zigzagging fluently is very similar to a snake. As they do a new move at each three or five feet, they use a lot of different technique and they had a lot of experience. I remember looking at four team in a week end and they always use the same spot to place there pro even if they on sight the route. They are skill in technique and in the way they protect themselves. When you asked them a question, they can't answer because there reaction on the rock was instinctive, the survival instinct of an animal in the wild.

gotta quote and save these things so they don't get deleted people ;)
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: DLottmann on August 20, 2013, 09:59:22 AM
Can a snake do the X position?
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: JBro on August 20, 2013, 10:15:14 AM
I've witnessed two snakes fall from cliffs but never once saw an elephant fall -- so I think that blows a giant hole in your theory Luke.

Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: darwined on August 20, 2013, 02:26:22 PM
Why must you ridiculise elephants?In the golden ages snakes and elephants would have a friendly discussion at the base of cliff.  Now it is hard to tell the elephants they should stick to sport climbing because there is lack of discussion.   ;-?
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: Jeff on August 20, 2013, 02:50:08 PM
An elephant or a snake in the X position--boggles the mind! ???
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: sneoh on August 20, 2013, 03:53:52 PM
Two snakes can form an "X" or "V" or ..... :)
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: M_Sprague on August 20, 2013, 05:15:10 PM
Yes, but elephants have strong trunks.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: danf on August 20, 2013, 06:56:13 PM
True. But can either snakes or elephants do the move described as:
Quote
take a look with your hand to find good hold over the overhang, find some thing, throw your leg on the edge of the roof, turn your body over the overhang and push with the lower leg and try to find a rest.
?? ??
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on August 20, 2013, 07:57:25 PM
saw a milk snake in Toe crack and another milk snake half way up a sport climb (does that count?) @ shangrila . A bat flew out from behind a loose block that Alex trundeled from Mo Pleasure last weekend. pretty sure it was a trad bat because it was on the 1st pitch which is mixed. the 2nd pitch is sport though so perhaps the bat was a gym climber :o
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: darwined on August 20, 2013, 08:07:20 PM
I'm thinking squirrels are definitely trad climbers. Ever seen the dynos those suckers are capable of? Don't even gets me started about their nut placements!
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: DGoguen on August 20, 2013, 09:03:15 PM
Hey Jacques, what you are describing is one of New England's greatest traditions.
Getting some mileage in,  training for the greater ranges. Simply moving efficiently with a competent partner is a pure joy in itself, even if not training.

Go easy on the Elephants, they are people too.


Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: lucky luke on August 20, 2013, 09:47:25 PM
Hey Jacques, what you are describing is one of New England's greatest traditions.
Getting some mileage in,  training for the greater ranges. Simply moving efficiently with a competent partner is a pure joy in itself, even if not training.

I agree with you

Before I looked at those climber who snaked up the cliff and I learned technique just to see them climbing or to listen to the experience climber. To have a better view, I suggest that the authority cut the pine in front of the cliff where the picknick table are to allow tousrism and new climber a better idea of the sport. Lay backing, or some think close to that, was the words they used to describe climber who take the last beer at the bottom of the cliff looking at the climber, criticize the technique and learning about that.

I even remember that All wrote in a thread that he looked some climber for an hour and as nothing happen go back home. I admit that my comparison about elephant can be exaggerated and I apologize. I was shock that those people think that they are good and the people with them too. When you climb in silent only the climber look at you and see your technique, when you climb loudly, they look at them as if they are hero, but the reality is that they are closer to an accident than the silent climber. Ordinarly I turn my head do avoid to take bad default.

I was mad about that and I told it at loud.

I shouldn't   
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: DLottmann on August 20, 2013, 10:05:18 PM
17 replies and 200+ views and I finally think I get what Champ was trying to say.

Heís saying climbers who hoot and hollar while throwing for holds (aka climbing like Elephants) are not as cool as climbers who do the same climb quietly... I think that is what he is saying... maybe... shit I really donít know.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: xcrag_corex on August 20, 2013, 10:05:37 PM
To be fair maybe that climber was pushing their limit at that grade. Perhaps they do mileage days at 5.6 and struggle on 8s..... Hard to judge fairly without knowing their story...

Darwined.... Maybe squirrels are the perfect analogy animal.... They place nuts AND dyno ..... Maybe they aren't Trad OR Sport...... Perhaps just climbers....
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: sneoh on August 20, 2013, 10:15:43 PM
Ah, I get it; snake = 'silent and smooth', elephant in a china shop = 'loud and destructive'.
Quiet feet and slick with everything else is good.  Climb like a ballerina too.
LL - don't go bouldering with youngsters if you can't accept grunts and screams.

No, I think you shouldn't have told the grunter/punter off.  Move away or walk away is best.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: xcrag_corex on August 20, 2013, 10:23:31 PM
Oh I see.... Grunting for attention in a boastfull manor... That's different than a grunt of exertion. Telling someone off wont change them.... Lead by example :)
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: perswig on August 21, 2013, 09:39:42 AM
Simply moving efficiently with a competent partner is a pure joy in itself

Word.
Dale
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: kenreville on August 21, 2013, 09:32:18 PM
There was a doctor friend of Dave Walters years ago that climbed Shoestring Gully in Crawfords and while "screwed off" at a belay, he snaked the hotty chick that was his partner for the day.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: lucky luke on August 22, 2013, 06:38:22 AM
Simply moving efficiently with a competent partner is a pure joy in itself

Word.
Dale

I agree.

where is the problem "with" today?

I think that some one most learn the basic technique with a guide in trad route to be able to move efficiently on the cliff. Doing boulder and rope technique are two opposite. As you get the basic technique, it is good to follow a leader of multi pitch for a year who climb to your strength level (i.e. some one who can not do one pull up will hardly climb ten feet of layback. better to stay in your bracket of strength to have more pleasure: not be afraid by over your head move). As you know how to belay and anchor correctly in many situation, your leader will bring you in short lead where you will learn advance rope technique (we all find boring belaying, but it is necessary). After, you will be able to climb with a friend who is at the same level of you and after a while, bring your friend in route under your level to gain experience and be safer.

In that way, you climb with many person: with experience climber, climber at your level and beginner...kind of pyramide where it will be just pure joy.

In fact, as we look in a mirror, we always find some default, some think that we don't like on us, a partner can not be perfect and often you choose the default of your partner more than is quality.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: JakeDatc on August 22, 2013, 11:14:20 AM
so... people are having fun.. climbing how they want...  but doesn't conform to some idiots delusional standard for climbing so they are wrong? wtf.. 

man he would have really hated my old climbing parters when we were all together at the crag... way too much fun being had
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: lucky luke on August 22, 2013, 10:39:37 PM
some idiots delusional standard

can you describe "standard"

and which standard you are referring too.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: David_G48 on August 23, 2013, 09:41:04 AM
I could be wrong but as I remember Lucky Luke is a good climber. Dman what is your take on his climbing ability?
This does not mean that I endorse all that he writes on line nor does it mean that I disagree with all that he writes.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: DLottmann on August 23, 2013, 09:47:31 AM
I've never climbed with him or watched him climb but I have close friends who have and he is pretty good. As much as his rants give me headaches I don't think he deserves the kind of personal attack Jake just dropped on him.

In person he is a super nice guy.

Online he is a fanatic over-thinking over-analyzing, philosophical nut-case who sees the world in black & white and has a ir-rational dislike of formal education that rubs me the wrong way...

Other than that he is A-OK!
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: DGoguen on August 23, 2013, 10:26:21 AM
I clipped bolts at Rumney with Jacques for a week onetime.... just kidding.

I have climbed with him though, he is a good climber, very safe and a responsible leader and a polite courteous gentleman.
His internet alter ego, Lucky Luke, on the other hand, can make my head spin.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: Admin Al on August 23, 2013, 01:17:59 PM
it would be a good idea if folks didn't resort to personal attacks here. disagreements are fine...
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: The other tomcat on August 23, 2013, 07:58:40 PM
I too have climbed with Lucky Jacques, and he is indeed a skilled dood and good partner. My first time out with him he dug deep and managed Duet Direct onsight without a fall. He's actually pretty good and a decent guy.

BRING SOME SMALL CAMS!



Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on August 23, 2013, 09:09:06 PM
Yellow alien, good balance and enough gas left at the end to crank the blue camalot crack 8)
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: JBro on August 24, 2013, 09:35:35 AM
I too have climbed with Lucky Jacques, and he is indeed a skilled dood and good partner. My first time out with him he dug deep and snaked Duet Direct onsight without a fall. He's actually a pretty good troll.


Fixed your post.

Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: Admin Al on August 24, 2013, 03:44:56 PM
come on guys.... let's play nice, or don't play at all!
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: The other tomcat on August 24, 2013, 04:16:04 PM
Yeah Nick, I was talking about climbing with Jacques, he doesn't have many small cams. Most old school guy I know.

That's so funny Brochu, good reminder why I don't log in here much....
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: David_G48 on August 24, 2013, 04:34:37 PM
I was trying to remember when Luck Luke actually made disparaging remarks directed to a specific individual on a personal level and I don't remember any. I do remember him helping a climber in distress at Cathedral one day. He does bring up controversial topics and opinions that do stimulate conversation. I'm not sure but maybe there is a lesson in there about playing nice in the sandbox if we care to look closely at it from which we can learn something.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: Admin Al on August 24, 2013, 06:48:18 PM
I'm not sure but maybe there is a lesson in there about playing nice in the sandbox if we care to look closely at it from which we can learn something.

yup....
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: eyebolter on August 24, 2013, 07:05:46 PM
You guys been climbing lately?  Pretty much 10 out of 10 for August.

Here is Rob trying to onsight my new 11d trad route today, no name yet.

 
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: ed_esmond on August 24, 2013, 08:54:19 PM
You guys been climbing lately?  Pretty much 10 out of 10 for August.

Here is Rob trying to onsight my new 11d trad route today, no name yet.

"been climbing lately?"  unfortunately, not so much...

anyway, who cares about "playing nice in the sandbox...."

that fracking rob,  i never liked that guy....

ed

ps.  ward, susan's dad just passed away. 2 weeks short of 97 years. he rocked....
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: Admin Al on August 25, 2013, 07:12:13 AM
97 years is a good run Ed. Hope I make it tha long in good health. RIP
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on August 25, 2013, 08:09:05 AM
Walter was a hoot! RIP

Yellow alien saved my life yesterday at poko :-* them modern little springy thingys are the next best thing to 1/2 in glue ins ;)
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: eyebolter on August 25, 2013, 08:15:27 PM
You guys been climbing lately?  Pretty much 10 out of 10 for August.

Here is Rob trying to onsight my new 11d trad route today, no name yet.

"been climbing lately?"  unfortunately, not so much...

anyway, who cares about "playing nice in the sandbox...."

that fracking rob,  i never liked that guy....

ed

ps.  ward, susan's dad just passed away. 2 weeks short of 97 years. he rocked....


97 is a good run, but as Captain Kirk told Scotty: "I WANT that third option!"

Rob pumped out, fell, and then was too tired to send it, so you can like him even if he is a young bastard at 40....we did manage 11 pitches although short including a bunch of 11's and one 12a. Fortunately I had the home court advantage so age and treachery overcame youth and strength.

Went bouldering with Stevie J today at the Sun Cave, new crazy highball finish to the Hueco Simulator that we worked on a toprope.   Easier, maybe only V5 but like 35 feet off the ground with the sloper crux at the top.  Gonna need about three feet of snow and helium up my ass to boulder that one. 

You gotta come down this fall.  I've seen you climb so i know you can do it.
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: sneoh on August 25, 2013, 09:46:56 PM
Age, wisdom, and treachery always trump youth and strength, Ward!
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on August 25, 2013, 10:51:06 PM
Dang. used my last hilti Quick bolt 3 today.... $280.00 clams for 50 of them amazeing little buggers.. i had 2 boxes off ebay for $36.00 and got spoiled.......  all gone now :-[
Title: Re: where is the climber who snake the cliff?
Post by: ed_esmond on August 26, 2013, 09:47:27 PM
97 is a good run, but as Captain Kirk told Scotty: "I WANT that third option!"

Rob pumped out, fell, and then was too tired to send it, so you can like him even if he is a young bastard at 40....we did manage 11 pitches although short including a bunch of 11's and one 12a. Fortunately I had the home court advantage so age and treachery overcame youth and strength.

Went bouldering with Stevie J today at the Sun Cave, new crazy highball finish to the Hueco Simulator that we worked on a toprope.   Easier, maybe only V5 but like 35 feet off the ground with the sloper crux at the top.  Gonna need about three feet of snow and helium up my ass to boulder that one. 

You gotta come down this fall.  I've seen you climb so i know you can do it.

I'm thinking ol' Walter was working on a lot more than just "three options..."

Photo of Wally, last fall  at age 96...  I didn't get any of the details, but he did tell me, he "didn't need me to give him a ride home..."

Seems a whole lot more impressive than any over-the-head heel hook, any day, any way....

ed

ps.I just heard that Rich Gerbert (sp?), Don Nelligen's co-owner of Eagle Bluff also passed away, all so sad.