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General => Rock Climbing: Sport => Topic started by: M_Sprague on July 26, 2011, 11:48:39 am

Title: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: M_Sprague on July 26, 2011, 11:48:39 am
The weekend before last, I took my mother for a tour of Rumney with my step dad. She just found out she was sick a few months ago, so may not be around very long, so after driving them to Vermont to see some things, I swung back through NH to show them where I had spent so much time over the years. They got the climber's experience of guerrilla bivying nearby, then borrowing a table to cook up some breakfast at the Calm Post, since Katie wasn't up yet to serve us as I had hoped, then got an early start hiking before the crowds. She had always been very vigorous and enjoyed hiking, but in her frail state I wasn't sure how far we could go. Anyway, we managed a full circuit up to the Main Cliff, Bonsai, Waimea, Jimmy Cliff and over the top to Orange Crush and down via the Kennel Wall path. They loved it, and recognized the magic of the area.

One thing though, that I was grossed out and embarrassed by as a climber (and person in general), was the amount of shit paper and crap below the Main Cliff. What the hell is wrong with people? Some of it was just below the cliff and literally 10 feet from the trail, under an overhanging boulder, in plain view from the trail. If somebody was sick, OK, I could understand them having to run and drop their draws, but come on!, Clean up after your self and bury everything. There is no excuse for such disgusting slobbery. There was more than 1 sick person could account for though. It is really disturbing to me that there are that many completely out of it people at the cliff. Unfortunately, I find that a lot of the paper is from women who  wipe themselves after peeing and then just leave the paper there thinking it will biodegrade, so it is all right. Please people, get it together!
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: JBro on July 26, 2011, 11:58:01 am
The weekend before last, I took my mother for a tour of Rumney with my step dad. She just found out she was sick a few months ago, so may not be around very long, so after driving them to Vermont to see some things, I swung back through NH to show them where I had spent so much time over the years. They got the climber's experience of guerrilla bivying nearby, then borrowing a table to cook up some breakfast at the Calm Post, since Katie wasn't up yet to serve us as I had hoped, then got an early start hiking before the crowds. She had always been very vigorous and enjoyed hiking, but in her frail state I wasn't sure how far we could go. Anyway, we managed a full circuit up to the Main Cliff, Bonsai, Waimea, Jimmy Cliff and over the top to Orange Crush and down via the Kennel Wall path. They loved it, and recognized the magic of the area.

One thing though, that I was grossed out and embarrassed by as a climber (and person in general), was the amount of shit paper and crap below the Main Cliff. What the hell is wrong with people? Some of it was just below the cliff and literally 10 feet from the trail, under an overhanging boulder, in plain view from the trail. If somebody was sick, OK, I could understand them having to run and drop their draws, but come on!, Clean up after your self and bury everything. There is no excuse for such disgusting slobbery. There was more than 1 sick person could account for though. It is really disturbing to me that there are that many completely out of it people at the cliff. Unfortunately, I find that a lot of the paper is from women who  wipe themselves after peeing and then just leave the paper there thinking it will biodegrade, so it is all right. Please people, get your shit together!


FYP
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: sneoh on July 26, 2011, 02:14:00 pm
Mark, first off, I am sorry to hear about your Mom.  My thoughts are with you all and best of luck.  I've been there.  I know how hard it can be.

I must say I have not noticed the TP and stuff you mentioned below the Main Cliff but I am rather non-observant to such things most of the time.
I usually do not have to 'go' while out for the day but 8 days ago I had to.  In any case, the point I like to make is it does not take that long to dig a hole and bury the stuff afterwards, bio degradable or not.  There is so much vegetation, non-compacted soil, and hand-size pieces of rock at Rumney that none of this should be a big chore.  The only inconvenience is OM had to wait back at the crag for 15 minutes or so while I answered the call of nature.
And never relieve oneself (pee or otherwise) on the dry side of the drip line at crags like Waimea and Orange Crush or Bonsai.  It is pretty rude to do so.  This has gotten to be a significant issue at RRG.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: M_Sprague on July 26, 2011, 03:39:00 pm
Thanks, Soon. The thoughts are much appreciated. She is actually doing extremely well lately, considering, and has been able to get about and enjoy her gardening etc.

I agree with the pooping in the woods issue. There is no excuse for not doing it properly and well away from the crag. I just don't get it. But people vote for  people like Sarah Palin, follow what some guy in a lime green suite says about God or brutalize a daughter for falling in love with somebody from another tribe. Oh well.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: little lil on July 26, 2011, 03:54:21 pm
The pooping issue is really disgusting but I have to say that I am not terribly surprised.  Rumney has become an outdoor gym that does not require much knowledge of some real outdoors.  So, I'd assume that a good portion of ppl leaving plenty of trace do so as a result of lack of knowledge. 
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: strandman on July 26, 2011, 04:52:49 pm
I'm with lil on this one. I have long thought that fewer and fewer people come into climbing from an outdoor background. ???  It's like people carrying all thei r shit on harnesses and such- "Where's your pack ? "  "I don;t own one"    :o The first time I heard that , I was dumfounded

I'm convinced that's why so many websites are inundated with " lost rope at crag" stuff-  HOW did you forget your rope ? HOW ?
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: eyebolter on July 26, 2011, 05:19:07 pm
Sorry to say this, but it is the Frenchies and the gym climbers.  I'm half Frenchie (Amirault is my mother's name; my mom's parents were from French-speaking canada), and I met my wife in a climbing gym, so please don't call me a  "racialist".

Frenchies and gym climbers.  There it is.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: sneoh on July 26, 2011, 05:23:57 pm
I'm convinced that's why so many websites are inundated with " lost rope at crag" stuff-  HOW did you forget your rope ? HOW ?

Perhaps he/she left in a hurry due to some unforeseen circumstance?
The more likely scenario is he/she was a part of a large group of people, equipment got passed around as the day wore on.  When it came time to pack up and leave, it was a total clusterf&*#; everyone assumed someone else in their group had their gear.

Case in point - there was a 6-foot long stick clip pole left at Lower New Wave on Sun.  I was there for 2 hours and no one came to claim it.  When we left (a little early in the PM), I decided to leave the pole there since it seemed to me there is still a good chance that the owner might come by at 7p to claim it.  So, just like a rope, how can one not notice the 6-foot pole is no longer there for at least 2 hours?
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: sneoh on July 26, 2011, 05:26:24 pm
Frenchies and gym climbers.  There it is.
Do you mean Euro Frenchman/woman or French speaking people from Quebec?

I am an early product of the gym so I do ot think all gym climbers do the 'bad thing'.

Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: eyebolter on July 26, 2011, 05:46:31 pm
Obviously not "all," but far more Frenchies and gym climbers are shitting on the trail than AMC members, and if you would like to sponsor a double blind study I'll bet all my gold coins that I'm right.

When I started climbing, most of us began as hikers and had some "leave no trace" ethic.  Today's gym climbers have spent all their lives inside, watching TV and texting.  Big difference.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: M_Sprague on July 26, 2011, 06:24:03 pm
I don't know. Not burying your crap or paper I could see being a result of being ignorant and somewhat dumb, but not right next to a cliff and trail. don't think it has so much to do with learning to climb in a gym or having woods experience or even being French Canadian. There are plenty of French Canadians who are also appalled when they see it. There are also plenty of people in Appalachia type places who can gut and skin a moose in their sleep, but think nothing of trashing a nice place. I'm not even sure there is a trad vs sport element to it. I bet if you had the same number of climbers climbing trad at Cathedral as are at Rumney, you would see shit  paper all over the place, maybe more. There is just something wrong with somebody who would shit 20 feet from a popular cliff beside the trail. It doesn't take most city livers to be told to know not to shit on their front step. Some people are just so into them selves, can't think beyond the moment and are oblivious to anybody else's experience. They are defectives.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: M_Sprague on July 26, 2011, 06:45:07 pm
..Frenchies .... There it is.

We'll have to have a sample sent to a lab and see if it was a result of good food.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: strandman on July 26, 2011, 07:10:33 pm
I have taken many a dump at NH climbing areas   :o  :) It's a pretty simple matter to cover things up. A c rowded place like Rumney must  really suck when  some asshole shits AT the cliff.
Yes, we should blame the Frenchies, but also any Italians that happen by as well.

Soon- there are posts every day about lost this and lost that, I find it amazing. On MP the other day a guy forgot a RACK of cams !!!!

There is a climb at Stanage (UK)that goes up an arete next to "the designated bog"  5.11 no gear   
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: DWT on July 26, 2011, 09:55:40 pm
Me thinks this might have been the same fellow that chopped new steps in the Falling Waters Trail.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: HangingChad on July 26, 2011, 10:24:47 pm

I'm convinced that's why so many websites are inundated with " lost rope at crag" stuff-  HOW did you forget your rope ? HOW ?

Oh I can answer that one for you.  split into different groups, went to do a few more pitches before dark, we had two ropes, so I threw mine BEHIND my car.  climbed the rest of the evening, then drove away.  Whoops.   
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: sneoh on July 26, 2011, 11:24:44 pm
we had two ropes, so I threw mine BEHIND my car.  climbed the rest of the evening, then drove away.  Whoops.   
Oh that's unfortunate.  Hope you get your rope back.
Know the person who left a stick clip pole at Lower New Wave on Sun, 07/24?  Hope he/she got it back too.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: backclipped on July 27, 2011, 06:40:44 am
Did a bachelor party run down a section of the Saco river last weekend--unbelievable  :o. I hadn't been on this river since I was a wee lad--holy shit! I mean, talk about a flotilla of abusive bullshit. I was blown away by all the shit left behind at the countless abandoned camp sites--shit every where  >: (Not always back-end shit, but surely shit just the same. Anyway, Boston seemed to be the dominant local that most of the river goers hailed from (the consonant "R" was dropping from mouths and clogging the sandy shallows) . Perhaps Rumney's close approximation to such a metropolis is the problem. I've only been to Rumney twice (once to meet a buddy who had flown in for a New England tour. The other time I took once look at the parking lot and U-turned out of there.) It is surely a high use area that likely attracts people who might not be fully versed in the "leave no trace" ethic.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: M_Sprague on July 27, 2011, 07:16:39 am
So, the question is: How do we educate people not to do it? Do we need a prominent sign at the parking lot kiosks or little signs at the areas of worst offense? ..or station somebody in camo with a camera and high powered water pistol?

Rumney is by no means as bad as many areas. I don't mean to make it out like it is, but any is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. When I visited Lake Louise in Canada, the whole back side of the lake, including out on a sandbar, was a complete mine field. It was amazing. Crystal blue lake, beautiful mountains, hordes of tourists, piles of shit and TP. In that case, I think you have  huge numbers of tourists who are completely unfamiliar with the laxative effects of exercise getting to the back and having the overpowering urge and zero sense
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: strandman on July 27, 2011, 09:36:34 am
That's diff. you got the rope to the car   ;)
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: strandman on July 27, 2011, 09:42:39 am
So, the question is: How do we educate people not to do it? Do we need a prominent sign at the parking lot kiosks or little signs at the areas of worst offense? ..or station somebody in camo with a camera and high powered water pistol?

Rumney is by no means as bad as many areas. I don't mean to make it out like it is, but any is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. When I visited Lake Louise in Canada, the whole back side of the lake, including out on a sandbar, was a complete mine field. It was amazing. Crystal blue lake, beautiful mountains, hordes of tourists, piles of shit and TP. In that case, I think you have  huge numbers of tourists who are completely unfamiliar with the laxative effects of exercise getting to the back and having the overpowering urge and zero sense

Or maybe it's the tea houses   ;D

Things used to be really bad in Josh then they started putting shitters all over.

The camera thing doesn't work. I used to live 300 yds from the start of the Boston Marathon-- on raceday the trees and bushes were like a frat party. WITH 80 porta's ACROSS THE STREET ! I tried a camera, no good. Cleaning the 12 gauge on the deck did help though..
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: little lil on July 27, 2011, 10:24:59 am
So, the question is: How do we educate people not to do it? Do we need a prominent sign at the parking lot kiosks or little signs at the areas of worst offense? ..or station somebody in camo with a camera and high powered water pistol?



Webcam.  Maybe one can even make money with it, there are some weird ppl out there.  Oops, did I just say that out loud?!   :o

Seriously, maybe a big fat sign at the parking lots reminding folks of the meaning of LNT; and spelling it out specifically what to do when one has to take a dumb to make sure there are no misunderstandings.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: strandman on July 27, 2011, 10:38:20 am
Nice lil- would it be "shitter cam" ?
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: OldEric on July 27, 2011, 10:45:23 am
I forget - is there a pooper in the new "improved" (sorry for the dig - no I'm not) Main lot?  There should be.  Anyone at Main, OC, Meadows or Parking Lot should be able to get to a real official pooper in 5 minutes.

But really compared to most places in the woods we generally have it pretty good in this respect here in the northeast.  It probably would be good to have some specific LNT posters at the trail heads.  I know the whole "How to shit in the woods" issue often comes down to a religious war (smear vs. bury, burn your TP vs. bag and carry out) but in this case I think we should be encouraging not shitting in the woods but carry in and carry out.  Maybe provide WAG bags in despensors.  renta-a-pooptube consessions (get rick quick scheme for Strand and Wietzler...) the mind boggles.

I don't think you can blame it on the gym climbers - last time I looked even the lowest form found there - the boulderers - weren't covering there stuff with the pads, but maybe it wasn't really tape marking the brown route.  On the other hand most of the hgihest mountains on earth are minefields.    Ward might not be that far off in blaming the Frenchies though  - there are cultural differences - look how both genders line up to pee in the gutter or the Seine in Paris.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: strandman on July 27, 2011, 10:54:48 am
HAH- I have a poop tube from Valley days. The Fish "big wall john"  It's pretty hard to use on the ground though.

Like the Seine, couldn't people just use the river ?  ;)
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: sneoh on July 27, 2011, 11:04:39 am
I forget - is there a pooper in the new "improved" (sorry for the dig - no I'm not) Main lot?  There should be.  Anyone at Main, OC, Meadows or Parking Lot should be able to get to a real official pooper in 5 minutes.

But really compared to most places in the woods we generally have it pretty good in this respect here in the northeast.  It probably would be good to have some specific LNT posters at the trail heads.  I know the whole "How to shit in the woods" issue often comes down to a religious war (smear vs. bury, burn your TP vs. bag and carry out) but in this case I think we should be encouraging not shitting in the woods but carry in and carry out. 

Yes, there is now a porta john at the Main Cliff Parking Lot.
There are numerous trail heads at Rumney so I think I am with Lily here, put posters at good locations in both Parking Lots instead.
I think, with Rumney, it is probably best to bury, if not carry out.  Burning will risk starting a forest fire in the dry season.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: OldEric on July 27, 2011, 11:12:18 am
If you aren't going t burn your TP you should carry it out.  Your poop - as gross it it is - is pretty biodegradable and it really doesn't matter that much.  But if the soil is deep enough bury it.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: neiceclimber on July 27, 2011, 11:48:00 am
I haven't seen the TP bombs lately, but I'm also not looking for them. What has been pissing me off lately are the dog owners who are not picking up there dog shit. I was at a trail head the other day where the animal matter out scented two outhouses.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: frik on July 27, 2011, 03:28:48 pm
A few weeks ago someone laid a fresh turd, complete with tp, within a few yards of the base of Reppy's. Stank the place up.
Gotta wonder what people like that are thinking.
Ya and i blame sport climbers, boulderers, Rumney climbers, people who climb in North Conway and the Gunks for this type of behavior... also Joey Bishop.
Certainly it wasn't the Habs.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 03:49:09 pm
I just spoke with Marion Webber of the USFS about the stair cutting and brought this up. There will be someone contacting me about putting signs at Rumney dealing with this problem. Any signs must meet federal standards or they will be removed. Once it is determined exactly what they should say I told her that I would be willing to do the work to get the signs in place.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: M_Sprague on July 27, 2011, 04:28:07 pm
You mean we can't put up signes that say " Hey Frenchies, stop shitting all over the place!"  with graphic drawings? LOL.

What ever happened to the idea that the RCA has an area on the kiosks for pertanant climbing information? It seems like that has been kind of pushed aside. We don't have any space at the small parking lot. I'm not sure what is still at the big one since I last saw it, but it seemed to be dwindling. The place is becoming completely sterile (except crap) and like a rest stop as I mentioned before since the FS has become more active. It's going to have no soul left.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: frik on July 27, 2011, 04:31:17 pm
Maybe it'd be ok to steal some official forest service "no crapping here" signs from someplace else. They probably have 'em posted all over the great gulf wilderness. - problem solved.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 04:34:08 pm
You mean we can't put up signes that say " Hey Frenchies, stop shitting all over the place!"  with graphic drawings? LOL.

What ever happened to the idea that the RCA has an area on the kiosks for pertanant climbing information? It seems like that has been kind of pushed aside. We don't have any space at the small parking lot. I'm not sure what is still at the big one since I last saw it, but it seemed to be dwindling. The place is becoming completely sterile (except crap) and like a rest stop as I mentioned before since the FS has become more active. It's going to have no soul left.

According to her under fedreal law nobody can post anything legally including the RCA unless it meets federal guidelines and is approved by the USFS. Does that surprise you? Just more BS from our federal government!

Justin will be contacting me about signs Mark. I think you know him. Dave
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: sarahw on July 27, 2011, 05:09:23 pm
There seems to be a general assumption that many of the people pooping and leaving their TP all over the place are simply uneducated in LNT practices.  However, many of the "newer to the outdoors" women that I've climbed with are actually really uncomfortable with the idea of pooping (and even peeing) in the woods, and would much rather hold it or walk back to the parking lot.  At first I assumed that it was this gym climber demographic (not hiker turned climber) that must be responsible for the poop piles, but so many women don't want to poop in the woods anyway.  Of course, we know who is responsible for the little squares of TP on the ground...

I at least try to educate people within my group with the proper practices (which often comes up because wearing a harness and looking at tall things typically sends me into the woods), and sometimes I resort to passive aggressive means if I suspect a fellow climber.   I say something like "Eww, I just saw some TP on the ground that someone left. Who does that! At least bury it, if you must use it!"  Maybe shame will have some effect :)
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: punxnotdead on July 27, 2011, 06:33:52 pm
LOL. I read the title thinking it was a name of a new "very" hard route at rumney.  LOL

yeah, poop bad a very busy places.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: strandman on July 27, 2011, 06:43:55 pm
I might be missing something but.... take shit in a shitter...  or cover it up/ bury ? Is that so tough ?

I got some climbs that people will have shit BEFORE the climb... maybe better ?
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: Dave on July 27, 2011, 11:14:34 pm
I might be missing something but.... take shit in a shitter...  or cover it up/ bury ? Is that so tough ?

I got some climbs that people will have shit BEFORE the climb... maybe better ?

John, A few years ago I did a route put up by you and Tom Callahan and almost shit myself in the middle of the route! ;D
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: sneoh on July 27, 2011, 11:33:38 pm
There seems to be a general assumption that many of the people pooping and leaving their TP all over the place are simply uneducated in LNT practices.  However, many of the "newer to the outdoors" women that I've climbed with are actually really uncomfortable with the idea of pooping (and even peeing) in the woods, and would much rather hold it or walk back to the parking lot.  At first I assumed that it was this gym climber demographic (not hiker turned climber) that must be responsible for the poop piles, but so many women don't want to poop in the woods anyway.  Of course, we know who is responsible for the little squares of TP on the ground...

I at least try to educate people within my group with the proper practices (which often comes up because wearing a harness and looking at tall things typically sends me into the woods), and sometimes I resort to passive aggressive means if I suspect a fellow climber.   I say something like "Eww, I just saw some TP on the ground that someone left. Who does that! At least bury it, if you must use it!"  Maybe shame will have some effect :)
I think Sarah is correct about folks newer to the outdoors being uncomfortable about relieving themselves in the woods.  That was the case with my wife when we hiked quite a bit in the Northeast several years back.  She used to 'go' at the last possible toilet and then hold it till we were back at it again after the hike.  Keep up the good work, Sarah!

Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: ed_esmond on July 28, 2011, 08:28:02 am
You mean we can't put up signes that say " Hey Frenchies, stop shitting all over the place!"  with graphic drawings? LOL.

What ever happened to the idea that the RCA has an area on the kiosks for pertanant climbing information? It seems like that has been kind of pushed aside. We don't have any space at the small parking lot. I'm not sure what is still at the big one since I last saw it, but it seemed to be dwindling. The place is becoming completely sterile (except crap) and like a rest stop as I mentioned before since the FS has become more active. It's going to have no soul left.

According to her under fedreal law nobody can post anything legally including the RCA unless it meets federal guidelines and is approved by the USFS. Does that surprise you? Just more BS from our federal government!

Justin will be contacting me about signs Mark. I think you know him. Dave



i'm not surprised the usfs  wants to control signs posted on property that they legally control...

put yourself in their position.  if you were legally responsible for an area, would you allow every individual with an agenda to cover the area with signage promoting their personal opinions?  i don't think so...

it's a shame that people need reminders how to poop in the woods, but apparently they do.  and perhaps a couple of informal signs would have done the trick.

but instead, you involved the usfs and you are now pissed that they want to follow their rules on land that they control.

if you had really cared, you could have just printed up a bunch of signs as suggested by mark (personally, i like "zut alors!  queebs et queebettes, ne poop-a-vue pas ici...") and put them up without telling the forest service.  by the time the usfs would have gotten around to taking them down, your message would have been spread.

that's called "actually doing something...."

geting pissed at a summit volunteer or a bureaucrat on the phone  or spewing on the internet is not "actually doing something."

respectfully,

ed e

ps in another thread there was some mention of the new trail work at rumney.  immediately after the work was completed, i heard a number of very vocal critics.  i found this ironic, as the people who i heard complaing the most were people i never, ever actually seen do any trail work themselves.... 

i guess it's the old adage, "those who can, do; and those who can't, complain about those who do..."
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: JBro on July 28, 2011, 09:10:24 am
I love how it's acceptable to rant about shit in the woods - which will eventually biodegrade anyway - but ranting about the AMC doing permanent damage in the name of convenience gets so many panties in a twist.

Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: M_Sprague on July 28, 2011, 09:57:09 am
Well, leaving crap next to the trail and crag is the result of sheer slothfulness. Those step that you are freaking out about are an attempt to improve a situation, whether you agree with them or not. Personally, I think freaking out about a few cut steps and shrieking "permanent damage" is about like the people who shriek the same about a couple of bolt holes for an anchor on a popular route instead of having people rappelling off a tree and killing it. I don't find a few well done cut steps particularly ugly, though they can be a little jarring when first done and showing fresh rock. Paving paths or something, yeah, I would be shrieking along with you, but a few steps, come on! Defectives I tell ya.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: JBro on July 28, 2011, 10:41:39 am
Nice use of hyperbole but good job finding a post in that thread where I "freaked out" or "shrieked" about anything. Did you even read my posts in the thread? [edit: except for my comment about telling the summit host to punch his clown, lolz... I forgot about that post.  :P ]

And I called the cut steps permanent damage because that's exactly what they are -- particularly when they cannot be justified for erosion control.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: Dave on August 02, 2011, 10:38:02 am

if you had really cared, you could have just printed up a bunch of signs as suggested by mark (personally, i like "zut alors!  queebs et queebettes, ne poop-a-vue pas ici...") and put them up without telling the forest service.  by the time the usfs would have gotten around to taking them down, your message would have been spread.

that's called "actually doing something...."


respectfully,

ed e


I was at Rumney Monday when I got a call from the USFS. There are going to be permanent signs going up about the disposal of Human waste. I received a PDF of the proposed sign this morning seeking my comments before they are made. It is excellent and my only suggestion to the USFS is that it be printed in both English and French. I was told there will soon be a new kiosk placed at the new parking lot and there will be a sign there as well as the kiosk at the main parking lot. There will also be a sign placed at the Bonsai/Wiamea trail intersection. Now I just hope that the people dumb enough to be shitting at the base of a crag are smart enough to even be able to read the signs!

Ed,
I decided to wait and respond to your post because of some things I had going on with the USFS. I did actually get the job done the right way. I really do care and that is why I went through the proper channels. Why piss of the USFS by breaking the rules when doing it the right way gets a permanent sign much nicer than anything you or I could make. You should be more carefull before making snide remarks.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: sneoh on August 02, 2011, 11:24:27 am
I was at Rumney Monday when I got a call from the USFS. There are going to be permanent signs going up about the disposal of Human waste. I received a PDF of the proposed sign this morning seeking my comments before they are made. It is excellent and my only suggestion to the USFS is that it be printed in both English and French. I was told there will soon be a new kiosk placed at the new parking lot and there will be a sign there as well as the kiosk at the main parking lot. There will also be a sign placed at the Bonsai/Wiamea trail intersection. Now I just hope that the people dumb enough to be shitting at the base of a crag are smart enough to even be able to read the signs!
Excellent.  Thanks for marshalling this process along so quickly, Dave!
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: frik on August 02, 2011, 01:35:16 pm
Great - now the price for a WMNF day pass will double.
 
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: strandman on August 02, 2011, 07:10:06 pm
It kinda reminds me about the recent deaths on Half Dome---60% chance of rain and still people went up. "If it was dangerous they would have told us"

Telling people not to shit at the crag ????

Maybe they will all die
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: steven cooney on September 02, 2011, 07:01:58 pm
This has become an outrageous issue along hiking trails as well.  So many folks heading into the forest and just dropping trouser in the rivers and streams and adjacent to trails with no proper burial.  Head out to Champney Falls on a Sunday PM after a busy weekend and the falls area below the waterfall is simply filled with TP.  Absolutely disgusting.   Hopefully the forest service develops a broad plan to educate and sign all trail heads. "Do your job, bury your waste."  It is just too foul.  Amonoosuc, Tuckerman Trail, Boulder Loop, the list goes on.  It is great to hear that a voice created very fast response.  Hopefully it helps.
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: CLemay on September 03, 2011, 10:31:44 am
Quote
John, A few years ago I did a route put up by you and Tom Callahan and almost shit myself in the middle of the route! ;D

WTF are you talking about Dave?? You shit yourself in the middle of every route you do!  8)
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: Admin Al on September 04, 2011, 09:08:43 pm
glad to hear that there are signs actually going up. I agree with Coon about Champney. it's a real mess and waaaay too popular. people are real idiots tho. heck, I've seen crap right by the toilet at Cathedral...
Title: Re: Shit and paper at Rumney
Post by: rose on September 11, 2011, 12:55:30 am
One strategy is having the gyms (Boston, Hadley, Montreal) play a role in educating their members about outside etiquette.  
(...)

And the below quote is really terrible in reality but well written.
Rose

edit:  additionally today the trail from Bonsai to Waimea had a few tp/poo piles basically 1 inch off the trail.  I have never seen it quite so gross.  In my initial post  I was joking about how it's always the next generation that seems to get blamed.  It's just a lack of consideration from those doing this.   Or maybe it's simply one person with a serious bowel issue making a mess. 




So, the question is: How do we educate people not to do it? Do we need a prominent sign at the parking lot kiosks or little signs at the areas of worst offense? ..or station somebody in camo with a camera and high powered water pistol?

Rumney is by no means as bad as many areas. I don't mean to make it out like it is, but any is unacceptable as far as I am concerned. When I visited Lake Louise in Canada, the whole back side of the lake, including out on a sandbar, was a complete mine field. It was amazing. Crystal blue lake, beautiful mountains, hordes of tourists, piles of shit and TP. In that case, I think you have  huge numbers of tourists who are completely unfamiliar with the laxative effects of exercise getting to the back and having the overpowering urge and zero sense