General => General Climbing => Topic started by: Admin Al on December 08, 2002, 05:30:33 PM

Title: fixed gear
Post by: Admin Al on December 08, 2002, 05:30:33 PM
dogboy and I did Pegasus with the rock finish on Saturday. with all the controversy about fixed gear these days we had an interesting thought. there are 4 pins on the rock finish. that's 4 pins in less than 20 feet of climbing. there is no reason that pitch couldn't be done with small cams & nuts. why not remove them altogether? it makes about as much sense as getting rid of bolts on Sliding Board.

inquiring minds...

Title: Re: fixed gear
Post by: treeman on December 16, 2002, 06:55:51 AM
i say leave them....its just a crag, not a big alpine route. crags are for fun and practice. the smaller i could keep my rack the better. is a "tree" considered fixed gear since there are no tree's on big alpine routes, why use then at the crags? when topping out at the rock finish did you hook that big root sticking out? its all for fun. no one said you have to use the pitons.
Title: Re: fixed gear
Post by: Culture on December 16, 2002, 07:54:36 AM
The fixed gear "controversy" is all a matter of perception of the society. We look at and perceive our cliffs (and fellow climbers/ man) very strangely here. After going to Europe it is amazing all the pointless and negative mental baggage Americans carry around with them when climbing. In Europe climbing is a fun art with an emphasis on fun.

People their don't really worry about that stuff. If the first ascentionist and following ascentionist leave gear they look at it as bringing their fellow climbers and climbing culture up, not putting them down.
Title: Re: fixed gear
Post by: treeman on December 16, 2002, 09:17:57 AM
also some of the old pins are a piece of history. last week some one pointed out 2 pins to me by champney falls(spell check) that jeff lowe put in on a first ascent. i guess it's strange how peoples ideals change.

           if some one is new at leading and tries the rock finish i'm sure he would use the pitons. but after he gets a few years under his belt he gets all rightous about the purity of the sport. why does every one do the 180.

Title: Re: fixed gear
Post by: dogboy on December 16, 2002, 11:15:28 AM
Same reason that, although we all sweated the time we led our first 5.6, a few years later we turn around and dismiss the climb as "easy" to other beginners.  As much as many of us don't like to admit it, climbing is a competitive sport, and climbers competitive people.  Unfortunately, sometimes that competitive nature manifests itself as a desire to make others' accomplishments seem less impressive than our own.  To me, the argument that fixed gear ruins the sport amounts to more experienced climbers wanting to make sure that beginners "pay their dues."  I'm certainly not advocating unbridled bolting, and I do believe that respect for first ascensionists and tradition are important, but I do not think that, once a climber becomes a 5.11 leader, he has the right to go back and chop bolts/remove pins on all the climbs he feels he has mastered.  Furthermore, resisting upgrading fixed gear and belays on climbs amounts to sheer stupidity in my opinion.  The attitude out West seems to be that any effort to make fixed gear and belays more reliable is to be attitude I think we would be wise to adopt.
Title: Re: fixed gear
Post by: Bryan on December 16, 2002, 11:36:39 AM
I agree with your sentiment.  As climbers get more accomplished they are able to saftely climb with less fixed gear.  For example, whenever I climb "thin air" I always skip the bolts on the traverse pitch.  I don't think those bolts should be there, but instead of yelling at who put them there, I simple don't use them, as a silent protest.  That traverse can be done saftely without them.
Title: Re: fixed gear
Post by: Culture on December 16, 2002, 12:20:32 PM
Good friendly competition is good. Ugly self-rightous competition is bad. People and climbing culture would grow more if we ALL helped everyone step up to their personal best.