NEClimbs.com forum

General => Rock Climbing: Trad => Topic started by: tradmanclimbz on October 19, 2012, 10:35:12 am

Title: WOW!
Post by: tradmanclimbz on October 19, 2012, 10:35:12 am
http://vocr.sri.com/herson/climbing/tr/hdiad-kara.html (http://vocr.sri.com/herson/climbing/tr/hdiad-kara.html)
WOW!
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: old_school on October 19, 2012, 10:59:06 am
http://vocr.sri.com/herson/climbing/tr/hdiad-kara.html (http://vocr.sri.com/herson/climbing/tr/hdiad-kara.html)
WOW!

I second that Tradman!!!! WOW!!!!  :o
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: eyebolter on October 19, 2012, 01:24:45 pm
Thanks Tradman, awesome article. 

Hard for me not to be judgemental about a 12 year old girl.  I've been taking Ella out the the crags (did a new boulder problem Wednesday with her napping in the tent), and I know people think that I'M irresponsible, so who am I to say.  But there are too many ways to die on Half Dome in the winter, never mind the climb, there is the approach, the descent and the weather.  How about the pic of her in sneakers hanging on the tat ropes stuck in ice on the death slab?  And then he left her at the base of the cables to go get the stuff stashed at the face.  I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

I'm hoping Ella is into sport climbing until she's old enough to know better.

 
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: tradmanclimbz on October 19, 2012, 01:34:14 pm
The approach and decent look sketchy as heck. The one spot where the fixed ropes were frozen under. if they did not have some sort of belay there it could have been death for certain. On the otherhand that Kiddo had  no Jumars  and it looks like she free  :climbed the whole thing and her dad is world class..... Still would NOT want to have to try and explain that TR to Mom.....  :-\
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: DLottmann on October 19, 2012, 06:12:01 pm
I am inspired, shocked, scared, and in dis-belief by that TR... so awesome... but so on the edge... but who's to judge I guess...

If I was to raise an eyebrow it would have been on leaving her for 1.5 hours... that... welll... it all worked out....
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: triguy on October 19, 2012, 08:40:45 pm
My biggest concern is how she would handle the situation if her dad got hurt.
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: Admin Al on October 19, 2012, 09:00:41 pm
This does not seem very cool IMNSHO
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: xcrag_corex on October 19, 2012, 11:16:47 pm
impressive little girl.....though stashing the daughter definitely sketched me out... i would be way worried....hahah
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: tradmanclimbz on October 20, 2012, 12:34:03 am
Yea! the part that ain't cool is that 12 year old girl kicking most of our arses :-[

yea. I do hear you. It scared the crap out of me reading the story but on the otherhand that kiddo probly leads 5.12 trad...
According to C mac dad is one of those world class big wall free climber guys who somehow sliped under the radar...
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: xcrag_corex on October 20, 2012, 09:45:40 am
smart thinking on his part.....building a rope-gun for his golden years...
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: lucky luke on October 20, 2012, 11:47:46 am
  And then he left her at the base of the cables to go get the stuff stashed at the face.  I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

I'm hoping Ella is into sport climbing until she's old enough to know better.

I just finish the book on the ascent of women in K2. I struggle with two mentality. One is selfish: I want to keep my daughter like we protect a cat that we own...and the second his also selfish: she is the perfect second, I can bring her where I want to go!!!

As I think as a father who want the best for a child...I will look at the evolution of the situation. What his her background in climbing. It is not really her first climb. She did a very hard route and, if you look at the photo, her father take shot at many places. She still look calm and happy. She wasn't in the position of an haulbag that there father tow to the top. As she know that she is able to do big think at twelve, and have a lot of possibility, is she going to think that she is able to do big think at school. I think so. Her father open her mind to a wonderfull futur. It can hae been in an other activity like scarving wood too. Manipulating the sharp knife is some thing that need a lot of dexterity. My father cut a vessel on his hand and went to the hospital as he was doing a job in our house. So, the danger is relative.

As I think as a father who want the best for a child...I must look at my limit. Some father have very short limit. The walk to the bottom of the half dome trail is about twenty minutes and going back the same. Bear...in winter....bear sleep in winter and there is no danger for her at all. So, if you do sport climbing, you don't have all that knowledge of the danger. In that story, his father led all the half dome in a day. It was there second try and the weather was really warm. His daughter talk about the danger of the climb and the father knew what to do to secure her in the traverse of the snow. The limit of the father was way bigger than the chalenge of the climb. As a father with limit knowledge, you never see solution, when to go back, when it is enought. A good father want to be the hero of his kid, but not at all price. A good father won't bring her daughter on some thing over his limit.

So, we have the upper limit, ability of the father, and the lower limit, capacity of the twelve year girl to learn from the experience. And a good father have to bring her daughter in some think between.

What about father who bring there daugther in some think to hard for her. As a guy climb 5.12 in a gym, 5.11 in sport and have to change the rating of diedral to 5.10 b to keep his ego at the same level, One can understand that there is a problem. Read the thread and you will spot those guy. In general, what they are scared to do his too dangerous to make for any body. They always cry about keeping the people at the bottom at the first wind and are looking for perfect condition. when an accident happen, they are happy: "you see, they never practice and when they want it so much that they try it in bad weather...they have an accident" Don't get out of the house...danger is every where.

Conclusion of that day...I will probably went to skate on the lake...,even if my woman told me that it have been more dangerous than the climb when I came back home.   
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: DLottmann on October 20, 2012, 02:18:11 pm
...
Conclusion of that day...I will probably went to skate on the lake...,even if my woman told me that it have been more dangerous than the climb when I came back home.

Your woman would have be right, it would have been dangerous with all that bikini clad eye candy...

(http://vocr.sri.com/herson/climbing/tr/hdiad/bikini.jpg)
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: lucky luke on October 21, 2012, 06:30:44 pm
...
Conclusion of that day...I will probably went to skate on the lake...,even if my woman told me that it have been more dangerous than the climb when I came back home.

I would have prefer that you focus on that line:
Quote
So, we have the upper limit, ability of the father, and the lower limit, capacity of the twelve year girl to learn from the experience. And a good father have to bring her daughter in some think between.
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: ELM on October 21, 2012, 07:39:29 pm
   Look...we can all second guess this Dad. I know I have done things with my daughters that have raised an eyebrow. Backpacking in -10 was one I can think of.
   He knows his daughter. It does look like he pushed her limit...he always sounded like he knew he was going to. Yes they could have had more gear to handle x,y and z: yet that extra gear many have been to much too.
   He did stow his daughter in a spot I may not have chosen. What made me smile was she had slept while he was gone. You can not get a nervous/anxious kid to sleep no matter what! Again...he knows her.
    They both had a great experiance that they will remember forever: nothing better than that.
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: lucky luke on October 21, 2012, 09:15:24 pm
   Look...we can all second guess this Dad. I know I have done things with my daughters that have raised an eyebrow. Backpacking in -10 was one I can think of.

So, we agree on the idea.

Just want to know reaction like this one, from "Smaller kids belaying adults (multi-pitch)"... andyposter76

Quote
No matter now good you are as a climber, if you are younger than 12 years old, you get bored and antsy. You get hungry, cranky, tired and you don't problem solve like an adult. Therefore, if you are being taken up a long multi pitch route, there should be an adult with you at belays to make sure you aren't dehydrated, etc.

and Dman
Quote
The other day I saw a father/son team on Whitehorse. The father was leading the dike route, and the son, I'm guessing around 6-9, was struggling to keep up with the belay (double ropes it appeared from below).
[...]
There are two main issues of concern IMO:

1) Obvious weight difference. [...]so if the leader falls there is a good chance for belayer injury.

2) Little fingers. I can imagine a kid getting his hand stuck in a belay device [...]

The last picture of wow! video...isn't it a young kid between 6 to 9 years?

and I don't suggest to any body to bring a child in a multi pitch route, I just think at how and when to take a decision to...
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: DLottmann on October 21, 2012, 09:24:17 pm
   Look...we can all second guess this Dad. I know I have done things with my daughters that have raised an eyebrow. Backpacking in -10 was one I can think of.

So, we agree on the idea.

Just want to know reaction like this one, from "Smaller kids belaying adults (multi-pitch)"... andyposter76

Quote
No matter now good you are as a climber, if you are younger than 12 years old, you get bored and antsy. You get hungry, cranky, tired and you don't problem solve like an adult. Therefore, if you are being taken up a long multi pitch route, there should be an adult with you at belays to make sure you aren't dehydrated, etc.

and Dman
Quote
The other day I saw a father/son team on Whitehorse. The father was leading the dike route, and the son, I'm guessing around 6-9, was struggling to keep up with the belay (double ropes it appeared from below).
[...]
There are two main issues of concern IMO:

1) Obvious weight difference. [...]so if the leader falls there is a good chance for belayer injury.

2) Little fingers. I can imagine a kid getting his hand stuck in a belay device [...]

The last picture of wow! video...isn't it a young kid between 6 to 9 years?

and I don't suggest to any body to bring a child in a multi pitch route, I just think at how and when to take a decision to...

As to tying this into the other thread, you can not compare the two. I said ages "6 to 9", and this is a 12 year old. Also, I think this 12 year old probably had tens of thousands of multi-pitch under her harness compared to the shaky 7 year old I was referring to on Whitehorse in the other thread. I also guarantee you the father on Whitehorse was no Half-Dome speed climber, as he was struggling for more slack constantly from his belayer while on double ropes....

My point is, apples to oranges here Champ...

The dad on Whitehorse looked like it was his first time climbing in 7 years... with his young un-experienced kid...

The dad on Half-dome is obviously highly skilled, and the daughter obviously has put in some serious time on the rock...

You can't compare the two...

And the reason I focused on the bikini picture is I can't have a serious conversation with you, so I prefer to focus on the light hearted...

And I failed again...
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: DLottmann on October 21, 2012, 09:28:33 pm
...
I would have prefer that you focus on that line:
Quote
So, we have the upper limit, ability of the father, and the lower limit, capacity of the twelve year girl to learn from the experience. And a good father have to bring her daughter in some think between.

Okay... focused...

That is actually well said.
Title: Re: WOW!
Post by: lucky luke on October 22, 2012, 09:03:07 am
And the reason I focused on the bikini picture is I can't have a serious conversation with you, so I prefer to focus on the light hearted...

And I failed again...

acting on knowledge, not ignorance...!!!

If you take a look at the last picture on the history of wow! 12 years girl, you will see that it is not a girl who stand on the rock with the lake behind him, without the skaters. It is a boy.

If someone want to prepare his kid to a be a good climber, he is not going to gave him the feeling that he is safe to teach the kid safety...he is going to gave him the feeling that he is in danger so the kid can adapt his skill to a situation that his father control, without the danger of a fall. Maybe the father make it so real that you think that he was in trouble. Many guide do that kind of training and unfortunately, the people understand it just few month or years later. In my opinion, it is the best training for trad climbing.

If you think at what I wrote on the upper limit and lower limit, what I asked you to focus, you will understand that if the girl is OVER is capacity to learn from the experience, that means that she can not adapt to the situation and she is an danger. I wrote voluntarily two upper limits, looking for some one to discuss it.

Deep understanding demand little bit more thinking than just writing some thing to gave an impression of strenght. It is what I don't like with the new generation. Fast food climbing, I use to say. It is not against sport climbing, but the superficial rules that people teach. Some of them like to think that they are in the same league of knowledge than the father leading half dome.