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General => Ice & Winter Climbing => Topic started by: Admin Al on February 03, 2013, 10:53:28 pm

Title: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: Admin Al on February 03, 2013, 10:53:28 pm
So how was your weekend? What did you climb? Did you get on what you wanted?

I thought it was a great weekend. There was lots of ice, it was better than expected and it got better every day.
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: DLottmann on February 03, 2013, 11:01:28 pm
My weekend started during the insanely warm Thursday (55 degrees), but on Friday we grabbed Standard Route and the slab to the right of HG: http://davidlottmann.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/2-day-private-ice-climbing/

Saturday was an excellent day summiting Willard via the slab right of LHMW and The Cleft: http://davidlottmann.wordpress.com/2013/02/03/ice-climbing-201-4/

Today I didnít work so I enjoyed a day in Portland bringing the kiddo to the Childrenís Museum there...

I was a bit bummed to miss the evening events but I think once Alex is a solid 2 years old heíll be more amped for some climbing slideshows ;)
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: darwined on February 04, 2013, 06:56:12 am
Great weekend!  Mount Oscar Friday, Central Couloir on Saturday, Mount Hale and Elephant Head Sunday.  With the exception of Mount Oscar we found and climbed ice all weekend.
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 04, 2013, 07:08:52 am
My ice fests have been great this winter. stayed as far away from them as possible and managed to avoid the crowds 8)
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: JBro on February 04, 2013, 07:41:21 am
I took my daughter to Disney on Ice on Saturday, then went skiing on ice at Cannon on Sunday. (Actually Cannon was better than we expected.)

When I used to ice climb we always headed for Smuggs during Icefest.
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: darwined on February 04, 2013, 12:19:42 pm
My ice fests have been great this winter. stayed as far away from them as possible and managed to avoid the crowds 8)

AAAAHHH my eyes!  I can barely see the keyboard through all the spray. :P
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 04, 2013, 05:13:15 pm
Smuggs is exactly where we were on Sat. the week before when Smuggs had their fest  we were @ The Lake :-*
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: darwined on February 04, 2013, 05:48:10 pm
Thanks for making my point for me.

Lots of people work hard pulling these festivals off and lots of climbers enjoy them.  You don't enjoy them(which is cool if it's your thing), so you avoid them.  Why not just avoid the "Icefest thread" too?  Just saying.
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: strandman on February 04, 2013, 06:37:22 pm
Ice on the knee,, a single cube in the Whiskey and then ICECREAM   :-*
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: slink on February 04, 2013, 06:46:26 pm
I worked all weekend so I did not have to deal with the crowds.I probably would have gone to Smuggs also.Of course the guides put a lot of time getting these together because they draw a lot of clients and work which is good for everyone.If you have been climbing as long as some people like tradman you want to avoid crowds and getting hit with falling ice so you go elsewhere.
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: darwined on February 04, 2013, 07:11:26 pm
I worked all weekend so I did not have to deal with the crowds.I probably would have gone to Smuggs also.Of course the guides put a lot of time getting these together because they draw a lot of clients and work which is good for everyone.If you have been climbing as long as some people like tradman you want to avoid crowds and getting hit with falling ice so you go elsewhere.

I get it.  Why jack the thread just to be an old fart? 
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: JBro on February 04, 2013, 07:21:54 pm
Thanks for making my point for me.

Lots of people work hard pulling these festivals off and lots of climbers enjoy them.  You don't enjoy them(which is cool if it's your thing), so you avoid them.  Why not just avoid the "Icefest thread" too?  Just saying.

My opinion is that things like ice festivals suck. They are put on for commercial reasons in order to bring more people into the sport so that commercial operations can sell more gear and sell more services. Witness the steady stream of daily spamming on this forum for the past several months--total commercial sellout. People are "working hard" to sell stuff.

Since this is a community forum there is nothing wrong with sharing ones opinion about these things. (Not saying tradman shares my opinion, maybe he just hates crowds for all I know.)

Thanks in advance for all the extra negative karma points this post will be sure to generate. Maybe Al will delete them all and give me 100 positive ones like he did for the ice fest spammer.

Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 04, 2013, 07:52:33 pm
Actually I am haveing some doubts and concerns about how commercial guide companies make money on our public lands in a way that drasticly impacts the outdoor experience for the folks who just want to enjoy the cliffs without trying to make money.
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: darwined on February 04, 2013, 08:06:03 pm
Thanks for making my point for me.

Lots of people work hard pulling these festivals off and lots of climbers enjoy them.  You don't enjoy them(which is cool if it's your thing), so you avoid them.  Why not just avoid the "Icefest thread" too?  Just saying.

Since this is a community forum there is nothing wrong with sharing ones opinion about these things. (Not saying tradman shares my opinion, maybe he just hates crowds for all I know.)

Thanks in advance for all the extra negative karma points this post will be sure to generate. Maybe Al will delete them all and give me 100 positive ones like he did for the ice fest spammer.

That's legit.  I guess I just got a little chafed by the speed of the shift to negativity.  I don't really care for the notion of being nutz to buts at the bottom of every ice climb either.  Who gives a shite about the karma points?
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: hobbsj on February 04, 2013, 08:09:55 pm
Maybe I'm an old fart too as I hate the crowds with the festivals.  But he wasn't dogging ice fest, just making a joking comment about not liking those events.  As much as people post about these things being so awesome, there is a group of us that don't find them appealing.  He didn't say it sucked and its for losers and resort to name calling.  I find it refreshing to see others that don't get jazzed about a huge population coming in.  As much as it brings in business, it also destroys climbs for a while, if not for the season.  Just as much you think we're old farts (still in my 20's), we could say you must be egotistic and get validation from being seen at events.  As much as you see a positive in these, we see negatives.
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: darwined on February 04, 2013, 08:23:03 pm
Maybe I'm an old fart too as I hate the crowds with the festivals.  But he wasn't dogging ice fest, just making a joking comment about not liking those events.  As much as people post about these things being so awesome, there is a group of us that don't find them appealing.  He didn't say it sucked and its for losers and resort to name calling.  I find it refreshing to see others that don't get jazzed about a huge population coming in.  As much as it brings in business, it also destroys climbs for a while, if not for the season.  Just as much you think we're old farts (still in my 20's), we could say you must be egotistic and get validation from being seen at events.  As much as you see a positive in these, we see negatives.

I don't begrudge the opinion that the Icefests suck and it's cool to avoid them.  The rub was that the thread got steered in that direction two or three posts in.  "Old Fart" wasn't cool.  Sorry Tradman.  I can see I'm on the wrong side of this one, but whatever.  Can't win 'em all.

Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: DLottmann on February 04, 2013, 08:30:15 pm
Thanks for making my point for me.

Lots of people work hard pulling these festivals off and lots of climbers enjoy them.  You don't enjoy them(which is cool if it's your thing), so you avoid them.  Why not just avoid the "Icefest thread" too?  Just saying.

It's all opinions man, but asking someone to avoid the thread after you asked what people thought of Ice Fest has incited quite a bit of negativity that while under the surface would have probably remained unsaid... just sayin...

Nothing wrong with people speaking out against it if that's their thing...

Since we're now debating the merits of Ice Fest, and festivals like it, I want to add my opinion to the mix...

It's about community in my opinion... celebrating the lifestyle of climbing... I LOVE seeing so many ice climbers get together and share stories, inspiration, first swings, future plans, check out new gear, show off old gear, make new friends, find new partners, win swag, drink free beer, etc, etc, etc...

Ice climbing is still a pretty exclusive sport. There is almost always ice to climb even during the Fest if you just stay away from the classics. It's only 3 days out of a 120 ice climbing season...

I don't know one person who "guides" just to make money. It is not a lucrative business. We guide because we love sharing the sport with people... pretty sure if I didn't guide I would be a teacher elsewhere, but I love teaching outside.

Actually I am haveing some doubts and concerns about how commercial guide companies make money on our public lands in a way that drasticly impacts the outdoor experience for the folks who just want to enjoy the cliffs without trying to make money.

I respect your opinion here, but I think the benefits of commercial guiding and the overall impact they have on the climbing community FAR outweigh the negatives. "Drastically impacts the outdoor experience"? I would argue the dozens of ill-prepared under equipped "folks" scratching their way up Lion's Head every weekend impact the experience of actual climbers more than guide services. Most guides (not all), but most I know will go out of the way to avoid impacting recreational climbers, and often extend help when needed, along with almost all local guides volunteering on Mountain Rescue Service.

I know I'm generalizing a lot here, and my opinions are biased since I am a guide, but I think we might be trying to find more controversy here than there needs to be...
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: JBro on February 04, 2013, 08:39:45 pm
Personally I'm not opposed to all guiding. My first few days climbing were with a guide and I still do a self-rescue course every couple of years. Also like you mentioned, the local guides contribute a lot with the rescue service and other community things. It's just for my sensibilities Ice Fest is a little over the top. But I realize a lot of other people seem to love these things. 
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 04, 2013, 08:59:04 pm
 I do not see how you could possibly say that the bennifits of gyms and schools bringing thousands of new climbers into the sport anually outweigh the negative impact of all those new climbers.
I am sure most of the guides are in it for more than the money but the bottom line is  that in order to keep a gym and a climbing school above water you have to generate revenue. the only way to generate revenue is to get new customers. getting new customers creates crowds that create erosion and parking problems that create access issues as well as seriously impact the outdoor experience  of everyone.  Much of this is accomplished by running a PRIVATE buisness on our public land. 
 I had no problem finding climbers to hang out with around a campfire back in the days before climbing gyms.  Often these days you are not even allowed to have a campfire or even camp @ the climbing areas.

Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: MT on February 04, 2013, 10:53:18 pm

I get it.  Why jack the thread just to be an old fart? 
[/quote]

Because that's what old farts do. Paragraph 6, sub-section 3 of the Old Fart Climber's Handbook: "HIJACK THREADS ON CLIMBING WEBSITES whenever possible and rant (aka "spray") about the good ol' days. Take every opportunity to stir the pot. Nothing like watchin' the youngins get their knickers in a knot"           ;)
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: Admin Al on February 04, 2013, 11:28:01 pm
just FWIW all the guide services are supposed to pay an annual fee to use the PUBLIC lands. in the case of IME and (I assume) EMS it's not an insignificant amount either...
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: slink on February 05, 2013, 05:52:13 am
OLD FART!! Not yet but working on it.Tradman is a youngster. Thread hijack I concur with D MAN an opinion was asked and a response was given.
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: Admin Al on February 05, 2013, 07:42:52 am
geez guys... ask a simple question around here & it gets twisted all around... let's try again:

If you were up here in North Conway climbing this weekend and were a part of the 2013 Ice Fest, what did you think?
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on February 05, 2013, 07:46:52 am
The old style guide who takes out one or two clients  climbing was minimal impact and a nice complement to the climbing experience. The modern era of large schools supported by multiple gyms running adventure camps and agressivly marketing new clients has a massive negative impact on the outdoor climbing experience.  Progress.. just like the hotel and golf course @ Whitehorse :-[
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: mopowers on February 05, 2013, 08:31:09 am
Ya, nice try Al.

Quote
It's about community in my opinion... celebrating the lifestyle of climbing... I LOVE seeing so many ice climbers get together and share stories, inspiration, first swings, future plans, check out new gear, show off old gear, make new friends, find new partners, win swag, drink free beer, etc, etc, etc...
Well said.

You wont ever catch me at an ice fest or even Rumney on a weekend. I prefer to climb away from  the crowds. That being said the Ice Fest looks like a great time for those involved and i completely support the celebration. I bet only a small percentage of people that hire a guide or take a class continue to peruse climbing. Besides, without posers buying gear i doubt the gear manufactures would have enough revenue to develop and innovate all the great gear we have.

I climbed at Willoughby on Sunday. It was very crowded, every available line had a party on it. Figured it was Ice Fest overflow. I ran into a couple fellow NEclimbers escaping the Fest and had a great chat session. Fun day dodging ice from every direction. Makes me think we should put on our own NEClimbs festival.

Ya... i too consider Tradman an old fart.

Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: DLottmann on February 05, 2013, 12:10:41 pm
Good article about event: http://www.conwaydailysun.com/index.php/newsx/local-news/95054-super-weekend-for-ice-climbers
Title: Re: How was your Ice Festival 2013?
Post by: Woody48 on February 15, 2013, 12:36:47 am
I had a great time at Ice Fest.  I met some new guys to climb with as well. The sideshows were fun as well.