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General => Ice & Winter Climbing => Topic started by: lucky luke on February 20, 2013, 03:11:08 AM

Title: critics and improvement
Post by: lucky luke on February 20, 2013, 03:11:08 AM
Always thought to see the critics first and improve after to meet our goal.

Some improove very fast in climbing, using triangle technique even before knowing how to use there crampon, and when they face the critics, they just be frustrated because they invest time and money with poor results.

I critics the avy avalanche. Here is some improvement I think:

low danger: text explain the site of recent avalanche and localise the path of it when it is visible for each gully. For example, in the second pitch of pinacle, you can see some day a broking line of three feet hight just after the belay. The avalacnhe is about twenty feet wide and his path cross the easy section of ice below where people climb ordinarly.

moderate danger: text explain all the data use in each analysis. As a climber, we often don't have time to dig a tranche and wait an hour to know the stability of the snow. After the data, a short analysis of what you see in the ravine for each gully and zone that most be avoid (snow pocket, powder avalanche, wet avalanche, etc)

high danger: explain that the data is at a critical level in each gully and emphasis on contribut factor, like winds, that increase the danger. particularly attention most be done to warn the climber to the technique necessary to climb safe (route finding between snow pocket, crossing an avalanche path, self belay, self arrest, necessity of a rock anchor, etc)

extreme danger: explain that the rescue service is suspended for a certain period and that the climber who risk an adventure into the wild do it at his own risk. Nobody is ging to help them even if they call the 911 because the danger for the rescue is too hight.

I don't know, but I think that one will think twice before going in the mountain, but as they learned and train...more good cimber will have great adventure??? 
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: JBro on February 20, 2013, 09:43:20 AM
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr144/burningazrael/Trap.gif)
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: OldEric on February 20, 2013, 11:24:15 AM
Truly mad embedding skilz - any 6th grader would be proud.  Plus knee jerking reactions are much more fun then actually thinking...
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: JBro on February 20, 2013, 11:49:23 AM
He MAD!

(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr75/starrman60/OldMadMan.gif)


BTW I'm a little insulted by the phrase "knee jerk reactions." I carefully considered which GIF to use for at least 45 seconds before choosing.
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: DLottmann on February 20, 2013, 01:56:09 PM
You mean something like this?

(http://excursionis.altervista.org/immagini/Danger_Scale_-_English.jpg)

En Fracias:

(http://savelli.luc.free.fr/avalanche/echelle_risques.jpg)

Understanding this scale, and combining it with the forecaster comments found here, http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/ (http://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/), pretty much covers everything you are suggesting.
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: OldEric on February 20, 2013, 02:13:22 PM
Just be careful not to click the wrong thing while you are having fun.  We wouldn't want to trigger another random spot device S&R boondoggle now would we?  Technology can be tricky.
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: JBro on February 20, 2013, 03:20:02 PM
Actually that sounds like fun. But what do you mean by another?
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: frik on February 20, 2013, 03:33:26 PM
Erik,
Thinking!
this is a thread started by Luke,
you're kidding right?

It's only self preservation to not think.....
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: ELM on February 20, 2013, 08:43:27 PM
LOL!!!!!!!! Dman how long did it take you to find that in English and French??? That should be your first post to all of Champ's threads... :D
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: WharfRat on February 20, 2013, 08:46:57 PM
I cant help but chime in and say this is funny shit!

Bout time you all got your shit together regarding the topic at hand and how to properly tend to it ;)

Sure took you all long enough though........
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: DLottmann on February 20, 2013, 09:03:26 PM
LOL!!!!!!!! Dman how long did it take you to find that in English and French??? That should be your first post to all of Champ's threads... :D

Stumbled across the french one on accident while searching google images for the right size for this forum... PERFECT!
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: JBro on February 20, 2013, 11:13:58 PM

Agreed.  Does this forum have options for ignoring pics in posts?  I'm in a remote location on dial-up and it takes forever to load just to discover its a flippant attempt at humour that is not funny.


(http://fabfunny.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/celebrity-gifs-at-first-i-was-like.gif)
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: frik on February 21, 2013, 09:22:20 AM
Shemp,

You make a good argument there. But for consistency, you should re-post every everything you don't like.
 
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: lucky luke on February 21, 2013, 12:40:52 PM
[quote ]
extreme danger: explain that the rescue service is suspended for a certain period and that the climber who risk an adventure into the wild do it at his own risk. Nobody is ging to help them even if they call the 911 because the danger for the rescue is too hight.

Extreme: Avoid all avalanche terrain

[/quote]

I think that the difference is obvious between those two. One is just an obligation of what you have to do: Avoid. In most case, it is arbitrary because you have to decide what is an avalanche terrain. If you don't do it, you will write avoid the mountain.

So, you close the muntain for all activity...

After, that, you will see the same way of thinking between moderate and extreme avalanche. In the accident, one of your said that it is foolish to climb in moderate condition.

I never let some one else take a decision for me when my life is threatening
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: DLottmann on February 21, 2013, 01:35:01 PM
I really don’t see your point. If conditions are nasty one should not think a rescue crew will magically appear if the shit hits the fan. This goes without saying in my opinion. Never rely on rescue, as it may be many many hours away regardless of conditions...

In the case of being avalanched, you have about 15 minutes if you are buried to survive without brain damage... so... who cares if rescue is not coming during extreme danger? You’re dead anyways...

If you are choosing your climbing route based on how easy you can be rescued it’s time to re-think your hobbies...
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: old_school on February 21, 2013, 01:50:00 PM
If you are choosing your climbing route based on how easy you can be rescued it’s time to re-think your hobbies...

100%
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: WharfRat on February 21, 2013, 02:28:37 PM
The responses via picture used as wise ass comment are far more effective than actual comments.

And here i thought you guys had finally figured out how to deal with this situation.

I am disappointed all over again ow well.
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: lucky luke on February 22, 2013, 02:04:43 AM
If you are choosing your climbing route based on how easy you can be rescued it’s time to re-think your hobbies...

if you are choosing your climbing route on how a third person see avy danger...it's time to re-think your hobbies....

althought many people do it...

do a route based on the proximity of rescue and low avy danger. I don't say that it is wrong, but not fair for skill climber who can deal with more chalenge.

closing the mountain to the adult with an extreme avy report danger, is it climbing?

 
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: JBro on February 22, 2013, 08:49:39 AM
You're a dink.

I'm a dink?

You've been registered for less than two weeks and you're already complaining about the forum while you're one of the few remaining people on the planet using a dial up connection? If you're looking for a dink try a mirror.

Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: ridgerunner on February 22, 2013, 08:50:19 AM
Again : highly amusing.
 :)
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: mopowers on February 22, 2013, 12:31:29 PM
Hey there Ridgerunner,

Don't you have more important things to do than follow these forums.  ::)
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: mopowers on February 22, 2013, 06:29:46 PM
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4008/larry.gif)

I did It! I wasted a huge amount of time and created my own animated gif. Larry B out climbing the lot of us.

I hope your proud of me JBrochu
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: DGoguen on February 22, 2013, 07:16:10 PM
Nice.
If you watch it long enough you get pumped and fall out of your desk chair.
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: pappy on February 22, 2013, 07:38:46 PM
Nice.
If you watch it long enough you get pumped and fall out of your desk chair.

 :D :D :D ('Scuse me, think I just peed my pants)
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: DLottmann on February 22, 2013, 10:31:23 PM
closing the mountain to the adult with an extreme avy report danger, is it climbing?

We don’t “close the mountain”. So what the f’ are you talking about?

Simply put;

We give info. You decide. You go out in horrible conditions, you better not expect to be rescued... what don’t you understand?

Jesus I am banging my head on the wall trying to talk to you...
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: triguy on February 23, 2013, 08:03:41 AM
Stop feeding the dog table scraps and he will stop begging!
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: sneoh on February 23, 2013, 10:32:42 AM
Is rock climbing season here yet? 
I can't wait to read all the posts about the difference between sport and trad, again! :)
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: JBro on February 23, 2013, 05:45:39 PM
I hope your proud of me JBrochu

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2277/2249450697_c992cb16fd_o.gif)
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: darwined on February 23, 2013, 08:13:22 PM
I hope your proud of me JBrochu

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2277/2249450697_c992cb16fd_o.gif)

Dude, I can count at least ten times, in the last month, I have been doubled over laughing at the computer. Great post.   I say "Keep up the great work!" :D :D
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: ridgerunner on February 23, 2013, 08:30:56 PM
"Hey there Ridgerunner,

Don't you have more important things to do than follow these forums."

David : I guess not. I try to never miss a post about improvement. They do get better and better.
 ;)
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: lucky luke on February 25, 2013, 12:58:04 AM
You go out in horrible conditions, you better not expect to be rescued... what don’t you understand?

You decide that it is horrible conditions and you never been there. I post a picture long time ago of my partner in a without, second pitch of pinacle that we climbed to the top in amazing situation. My partner, berely visible in the snow was at fifteen feet of me and....the couloir was completely icy. We had extreme condition.

If you look at my post:

Quote
extreme danger: explain that the rescue service is suspended for a certain period and that the climber who risk an adventure into the wild do it at his own risk. Nobody is ging to help them even if they call the 911 because the danger for the rescue is too hight.

Extreme: Avoid all avalanche terrain

you will note that I suggest that the climber who think that they are as good or better to the rescue can go to the mountain, but they dont have to expect to be rescue.

You said that horrible condition  was extreme avalanche danger...but I have a proof that you are wrong... In fact I have many proof of white out where the avalanche danger was very low, but the wind amasing. Some day I knew that I have to found my way alone because even me I wasnèt able to go back, but some other day it was pure fun and chalenge.
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: frik on February 25, 2013, 11:08:19 AM
DMan,
just pull the hook out and swim away....
Title: Re: critics and improvement
Post by: DLottmann on February 25, 2013, 11:33:33 AM
DMan,
just pull the hook out and swim away....

done :)