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General => General Climbing => Topic started by: strandman on March 26, 2013, 07:36:08 pm

Title: Education
Post by: strandman on March 26, 2013, 07:36:08 pm
I'm sick of this shit,, Freedom of the hills,, I'm gonna buy all the copies and burn them..

You wanna learn ? Go to yosemite for month,, or Spain or OZ.. live it up, learn  and have fun.

Without travel for climbing, you know nothing.. ever

i spent a month with bachar, skinner and largo one time and i never learned more about anything.. ever

NE is the best
Title: Re: Education
Post by: xcrag_corex on March 26, 2013, 08:07:44 pm
Here here Strand!!!!!! Long Live NE!!!!!! 8)
Title: Re: Education
Post by: kenreville on March 26, 2013, 08:59:40 pm
We're stoic.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on March 26, 2013, 09:41:54 pm
Stubborn-  I have climbed in a lotta places,,,,nobody better then Jimmie Dunn,, ever  the dude still does one hand 5,11 cracks
Title: Re: Education
Post by: pappy on March 28, 2013, 10:51:04 am
Just to stir the pudding...NE climbers tend to have a rep elsewhere, like anywhere south of here, as being a bit full of themselves and their rock for less than adequate reasons. Probably goes back to Webster's guides and his assertion that the choss pile, er, Cannon, is the biggest wall in the East (ignorance) and that Whitehorse is the best friction in the east (laughable). There's some great stuff up here, but, for instance, when I first went to Cathedral my reaction was, 'So this is the famous Cathedral Ledge? Cool. It would be in the top ten in NC. Somewhere between #5 and #10.' Let the flames begin.

And I've never met any climber, anywhere, who didn't have the attitude that 'if you can climb [in my local region], you can climb anywhere.' So you're right, travel is key.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: darwined on March 28, 2013, 12:04:45 pm


And I've never met any climber, anywhere, who didn't have the attitude that 'if you can climb [in my local region], you can climb anywhere.' So you're right, travel is key.

Biggest? nope. Best ?  Prolly not. But I can't say I've traveled to too many places where I thought, "Man, this seems hard for the grade".  That's not to say that moment isn't coming, I'm still fairly green.

I think the last part of your post is more about the diversity of terrain, rock, ice, and alpine choss.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: kenreville on March 28, 2013, 12:26:24 pm


And I've never met any climber, anywhere, who didn't have the attitude that 'if you can climb [in my local region], you can climb anywhere.' So you're right, travel is key.

Biggest? nope. Best ?  Prolly not. But I can't say I've traveled to too many places where I thought, "Man, this seems hard for the grade".  That's not to say that moment isn't coming, I'm still fairly green.

I think the last part of your post is more about the diversity of terrain, rock, ice, and alpine choss.

There's only 2 places that I've been to where the routes are overall hard for the grade. The Adirondacks, and Lookout Mtn, Georgia.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: pappy on March 28, 2013, 01:21:43 pm


And I've never met any climber, anywhere, who didn't have the attitude that 'if you can climb [in my local region], you can climb anywhere.' So you're right, travel is key.

Biggest? nope. Best ?  Prolly not. But I can't say I've traveled to too many places where I thought, "Man, this seems hard for the grade".  That's not to say that moment isn't coming, I'm still fairly green.

I think the last part of your post is more about the diversity of terrain, rock, ice, and alpine choss.

There's only 2 places that I've been to where the routes are overall hard for the grade. The Adirondacks, and Lookout Mtn, Georgia.

I think it just has to do with when a cliff was developed and how much of a backwater it was. Seneca, Daks, a lot of stuff at the Glass (Tits & Beer: 5.8. QED), the older sandstone areas in the SE like Sunset all went up at an earlier time and with an attitude that it was worse to overgrade than undergrade. (When we were developing Reel Cove, just another multi-mile continuous 150' vertical cliff in TN, we agreed that you should rate a new route at the lowest grade you can without laughing, which I still think is the best way to go). I don't know Cathedral well enough yet, but I would guess that was true there as well, and I've heard that a lot of 5.9s (older routes) in Yosemite are a lot harder than a lot of the newer 5.10s. I know when I started it was much more desirable to put up a route that was so scary that people would shit themselves walking beneath it rather than just a put up a high number (of course, best was both). Today the mindset is totally different, especially at sport areas, which results in places like Foster Falls and especially Shelf Road, CO, which is a world class joke.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: eyebolter on March 28, 2013, 05:01:31 pm

[/quote]

There's only 2 places that I've been to where the routes are overall hard for the grade. The Adirondacks, and Lookout Mtn, Georgia.
[/quote]

You have obviously never been to Connecticut.  Maybe the grades have found more reality now, but Nichols complained to the guidebook author (Mellor) in writing about how soft the Adirondack grades were.  Of course he never did anything hard without toproping it 250 times.

Title: Re: Education
Post by: kenreville on March 28, 2013, 06:39:24 pm


There's only 2 places that I've been to where the routes are overall hard for the grade. The Adirondacks, and Lookout Mtn, Georgia.
[/quote]

You have obviously never been to Connecticut.  Maybe the grades have found more reality now, but Nichols complained to the guidebook author (Mellor) in writing about how soft the Adirondack grades were.  Of course he never did anything hard without toproping it 250 times.
[/quote]

Soft ADK grades? Now that's funny.
Ken Nichols climbs hard.
He's also got a few loose screws.
Ya gotta consider the source.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on March 28, 2013, 06:59:16 pm
I must agree on CT grades.... i tried, really tried to ever get a 5.11 on lead in CT.. close but never. of course Ragged Edge at 10+ RR is close.
Devil's lake is close second...
Title: Re: Education
Post by: lucky luke on March 29, 2013, 11:42:09 am
I don't know Cathedral well enough yet, but I would guess that was true there as well, and I've heard that a lot of 5.9s (older routes) in Yosemite are a lot harder than a lot of the newer 5.10s. I know when I started it was much more desirable to put up a route that was so scary that people would shit themselves walking beneath it rather than just a put up a high number (of course, best was both). Today the mindset is totally different, especially at sport areas, which results in places like Foster Falls and especially Shelf Road, CO, which is a world class joke.

Before, I heard that the highest grade doesn't exist and they rate a route like: "anythink which are not 5.8 is 5.9". So, as we have very good climber too in the earlier year, some 5.9 are really sand bag.

i agree also with the change of mentality. When you open a route today, people will remember that you open a 5.11 at a cliff, but they won't remember you. Before, they will said that it is a sand bag and asked who open it. As the climber community was smaller, more people will know each other and we will have a good idea of the rating of the route.

I heard that a route, like royal arches in yosemite, rating 5.7 with a move of A0, was called a 5.6 are more than 90 % of the route is 5.6. is it what you said when they rate at the lowest level? I also think that they rate the route as follow: all the move with three point of contact from larger hole to smaller 5.3 to 5.8. (all the move are done in balance); when a hole is missing and you need to use your body strenght because you can't balance is 5.8 to 5.10 (need a good knowledge of the lower grade to know when you are in balance or when you need your strenght as you can power up many move (5.5 at the top of lakeview); 5.11 to higher, you need to use your strenght on one good hole or a combination of two or three to climb and use your body as a lever to keep your equilibrum.

As today beginer is 5.9, I think that many of you won't agree or understand it. 
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on March 29, 2013, 06:57:10 pm
Don't be pompous Luke  - we can understand stuff.
Royal Arches is 5.7 AO 3 pts.

Ya we simu xlimbed past the "10a" but so what.. we were climbing 11+ at the time.  BUT,, BIG BUT.. my partner and I had climbed for hundreds of days together,, in all types of situations. 

Yosemite is the great learning area for trad.. no exception..
Title: Re: Education
Post by: sneoh on March 29, 2013, 07:09:48 pm
"Use your body as a lever".  Good stuff.  Joe Landry was talking about core strength (shit to me then) in the early '90's.  I did not understand the importance and advantage of core until much later.  So key to climbing in control and efficiently.

Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on March 29, 2013, 07:13:47 pm
Bob scarpelli- the OW god had a belly,, really,, it was fucking rock hard 18 pack for sure.  Talk about core..... his OW , horizontal 5" above his bed was classic.. the former MRS Scarpelli  " i wish you stay up that long with me"

i'm not shittin'
Title: Re: Education
Post by: sneoh on March 29, 2013, 07:20:15 pm
I totally believe you John. 
45 deg or steeper wall, small feet, huge hand holds, no campusing, no cutting of feet, up climb and down climb.  That would develop some core.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on March 29, 2013, 07:49:44 pm
You mean coach niland ?

he taught me that stuff in '79.. i didn't LEARN it until much  later

Footwork and we'll call it ' spacial relation" always know what limb is going to do  next.. think ahead,,, shape your foot to how it will be on the hold,, no fuckin around with shit

he's a master

i'm goona get abeer, look at some coach photos and touch myself   8)
Title: Re: Education
Post by: sneoh on March 29, 2013, 09:06:11 pm
Footwork and we'll call it ' spacial relation" always know what limb is going to do  next.. think ahead,,, shape your foot to how it will be on the hold,, no fuckin around with shit
Right on.  I gotta remember to do it ALL the time not just most of the time.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: tradmanclimbz on March 29, 2013, 09:40:16 pm
Travel is key. Nothing like the Desert in the spring after a NE winter... You learn every place you go....
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on March 29, 2013, 10:36:35 pm
Creek , next week.. good rehab
Title: Re: Education
Post by: steve weitzler on March 30, 2013, 12:09:27 pm
Strand had an 18 pack as well. Unfortunately he drank it all before the rest of us could share!! :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on March 30, 2013, 06:25:29 pm
Easy there catepiller lip
Title: Re: Education
Post by: tradmanclimbz on April 01, 2013, 07:15:28 am
Education from the Mt washington ski patrol.

At about a quarter to five on Saturday, I called over to Dave, the AMC caretaker, to see if he was coming over for the traditional springtime spaghetti dinner. During the call he asked if Iíd seen the dog stuck up high in the Lip area. Sure enough, through the binoculars from the cabin I saw a large dog being slowly lead downslope by someone on foot. It was slow going. The man appeared to be having some difficulty kicking solid steps into the crusty snow. He would go a few feet down, then would coax the dog down. Every so often the dog would try to climb back uphill. The dog certainly wasnít a willing participant in the downclimbing effort. Watching this from the cabin window was captivating. Like a bad reality TV show, I just couldnít pull myself away from watching.

Before the duo had made much progress, I saw them begin to fall. At first it looked like they might be able to recover and simply slide down the slope, but after about a hundred vertical feet they started to tumble. The dog accelerated more quickly than the man, and before long was tumbling, fully laid out like a gymnast doing back handsprings.

Iíve seen hundreds, if not thousands of people take that same fall, most of them stand up and walk away. In ten years of working up here, Iíve never seen a dog take a fall quite like Saturdayís (though I wasnít here for Tyrol the dog falling over the cliff in the Lip in 2012.) I had thought there was nobody else in the ravine at that time late in the day, so with the potential for an injured person and a dog, I asked our volunteer ski patrol to stand by, grabbed my pack, and started quickly up the trail. Truth be told, I was less concerned about the person as I was about the dog. Having seen the fall, I expected to see the person in good shape but an unconscious dog.

As it turns out, both man and dog were uninjured.  When I got there, they were beginning to ski out. I caught them in time to hear the story. It turns out that there were two skiers. The first skier down went with the dog, through the steepest section of the route. At some point the dog slipped, and then ran back up through the steep section above past the other skier who was skiing down but near the top. The lower skier took his skis off and headed back up to the dog to help it come down. This was where the situation was when I began to watch the event unfold.

Unfortunately, this type of event is not uncommon here in the springtime. We often have a variety of dog safety and related issues in Tuckerman Ravine.

Dog Safety

    Cuts to dog paws or legs from skiers or snowboarders are the most common reason for dog evacuations. Some dogs have the herding instinct and like to get close to the heels of a skier or tips of skis.  Dogs donít know the danger in being run over by a ski or board, and are not likely to know enough to stay away from sharp edges.
    In some snow conditions, dogs can also get snow balled up inside the pads of their feet, which can be incredibly painful and debilitating. It can lead to bleeding, and it can cause your dog to want to lie down and go nowhere. If you see this happening, remove the ice balls and consider turning back to the trailhead while your dog is still willing to walk. Cutting the dogs fur very short between its pads, and some commercial paw products can help.
    Dogs in excessively steep terrain is another common safety issue. All dogs are different, but there are some commonalities, one of which is that itís far easier for a dog to climb up a slope than to climb down. This is often the case for humans as well, but as bipeds we have the ability to face into the slope or away from it, or to traverse when needed. Dogs only know how to go downhill one wayóface first. This makes it tough for them to maintain the balance needed to go down slowly.
    Snow conditions and slope angle are the factors that drive whether or not a dog can actually descend the slope.  In hard snow or very steep terrain, at some point your dog will reach a point where it will only climb, and wonít descend.   If the dog isnít showing a willingness to go down, consider taking a different route that is less steep. Whether or not this is the way you want to go down should not be a consideration. If you brought the dog up do what you need to so that it can get down safely. 
    Dogs often get separated from their owners. Some that do this end up following other skiers up a route looking for their owner. See the bullet point above for what happens next, but add to it the fact that someone else usually has to change his or her plans to help the dog get down the slope. There always seems to be a kind hearted person who takes this on, despite it not being their responsibility. A leash is the best way to keep your dog under control; other things that help are keeping your dog in sight and appointing someone from your party to watch the dog while you climb up and ski down. If you lose your dog, contact a Snow Ranger, the AMC caretaker, or Pinkham staff to let us know whatís going on. Weíll do what we can to help locate the dog, but ultimately itís your responsibility to find your dog.
    Like people, dogs get tired. They just canít really speak up about it. That doesnít mean there arenít signs of fatigue that you can recognize. Frequently lying down and resting is a good sign that your dog is getting tired. If you find yourself needing to pull on the leash to get him up and walking, thatís a great sign that youíve got an exhausted dog that needs to rest and head back to the car. We see this more with dogs that donít spend a lot of time hiking, but fit dogs can also get tired in poor snow conditions (e.g. postholing).

 Other dog issues

    Want everyone in the bowl to be angry with you? Leave your unattended dog tied up in the floor of the ravine barking for hours while youíre out having fun is a sure way to do this. Unless you know for sure that your dog is not going to do this, keep someone with the dog at all times.
    Not all dogs are perfectly friendly, and not all people like dogs. Donít be surprised if your sweet canine running around gets attacked by an aggressive dog. While we would love to see only well-socialized dogs here, thatís often not the case. You can blame the other dog or dog owner, but you can also avoid the problem by keeping your dog on a leash. Also remember that some people just donít like dogs and others are terribly afraid of them. Your dog, sweet as it may be, might be intimidating to others, so this is yet another reason to keep it under control.
    Some dogs have been known to steal food from people and packs. Itís in everyoneís best interest to not leave food unattended, but itís also the responsibility of the dog owner to make sure their dog doesnít snatch food from others. Once again, keeping your dog on leash or under control is the solution to this.
    Finally, all dogs have to relieve themselves once in a while. If they defecate on the trail, at minimum you should shovel it off into the woods. Dogs also been known to mark their territory right onto another personís backpack. You can probably imagine the problems that can cause.

 Most of us working up here really love dogs. We especially enjoy seeing well socialized, non-begging dogs that can run up and down the mountain, never bark or bite, poop in the woods, and stay at their ownerís side when standing and 20í back from skis when moving. Rarely are dogs good at all of this, so it ultimately falls onto the owner to be responsible for their dog at all times. If you arenít sure of your dogís ability in the mountains, be conservative until you learn. Pay attention to what your dog is telling you and youíll prevent many issues before they emerge. And always bring a leash, even if you donít need to use it all the time.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 01, 2013, 09:26:14 am
Good points Trad,
Do people really have to take dogs everywhere ???

i heard of one unleashed, try to follow it's owner into the Black.. didn't make it.  Asshole owners
Title: Re: Education
Post by: lucky luke on April 01, 2013, 04:39:23 pm
Good points Trad,
Do people really have to take dogs everywhere ???

i heard of one unleashed, try to follow it's owner into the Black.. didn't make it.  Asshole owners

some dogs annoyed bears and bring it back to his master... this is the reason why dog are not allowed in many park.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 01, 2013, 06:54:31 pm
What ???

i said i would not read any of your replies.. but this one.....
Title: Re: Education
Post by: DLottmann on April 01, 2013, 07:22:17 pm
I'm not the only one who can't help it... I'll let you know when I find that support group...
Title: Re: Education
Post by: kenreville on April 01, 2013, 07:44:50 pm
Good points Trad,
Do people really have to take dogs everywhere ???

i heard of one unleashed, try to follow it's owner into the Black.. didn't make it.  Asshole owners

People that don't take 100% responsibility for their dogs are soooooooo passe.
If you own a dog and let it run around doing whatever it wants "cause everyone loves MY dog", be careful around fuckers like me. I have little tolerance for run amuck children. ZERO tolerance for run amuck dogs.
You can count on me to LOUDLY send you and your dog packin.
That doesn't work? Watch out for the bitch slap.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 01, 2013, 07:48:38 pm
no dogs runnin' around my neck of the woods-- big momma kitty eats them and then shows here little ones how to eat the other ones.

bitch Slaps All Around
Title: Re: Education
Post by: tradmanclimbz on April 01, 2013, 07:49:36 pm
BTW. Not my rant. I copyed it from a facebook post from Mt Washington ski patrol.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: kenreville on April 01, 2013, 07:51:20 pm
It is a fine rant nonetheless.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: tradmanclimbz on April 01, 2013, 07:51:26 pm
I will say though that if you bring your dog ice climbing you are definatly beyond help...........
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 01, 2013, 08:07:38 pm
That's why they have those little fucking dog coats
Title: Re: Education
Post by: kenreville on April 01, 2013, 08:14:33 pm
Yhep. Skin 'em and you've got a dog coat.

PETA will have a coronary,  Screw them anyways.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 01, 2013, 08:26:48 pm
WOOF... muthfucka

"i love my dog, it's like a kid"

NO , it's a fucking dog.. or cat.. or llama.. it's not a kid
Title: Re: Education
Post by: sneoh on April 01, 2013, 10:25:31 pm
NO , it's a fucking dog.. or cat.. or llama.. it's not a kid
Classic.  I like most animals but I have to agree with this reality (which seems to elude some).
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 01, 2013, 10:45:19 pm
It's like 'i love my cat"

NO

I love my wife--- fucking assholes
Title: Re: Education
Post by: tradmanclimbz on April 02, 2013, 06:39:36 am
One of the major flaws in our society today is that people love their dogs more than they love their humans :-[ Ever notice how many women are nicer to a complete strangers dog than they are to their spouse........
Title: Re: Education
Post by: steve weitzler on April 02, 2013, 07:37:39 am
It's like 'i love my cat"

NO

I love my wife--- fucking assholes



I love John's wife too.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: Admin Al on April 02, 2013, 09:05:20 am
Talkin' about dogs at the cliff... Ask George Hurley about Alain Comeau' dog sometime...
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 02, 2013, 09:29:36 am
I would love to,,,, knowing Alain and George forever, i bet the dogs behave.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: DaveR on April 02, 2013, 11:38:23 am
I would love to,,,, knowing Alain and George forever, i bet the dogs behave.

I wonder if the dog is as chill as he is?
Title: Re: Education
Post by: pappy on April 02, 2013, 11:44:04 am
umm, all you dyspeptic yankees can go f#$k yourselves. I used to have a big (100 lbs. lean) black Lab/golden mix that I took everywhere, including ice climbing, but then, there was rarely anyone else ice climbing where I was. Her instinct was to go way off in the woods to hide where she took a dump, and yes, she loved everyone, and typically everyone loved her, and if they didn't she just ignored them. There was a while there though whenever I went to T-Wall she'd be out in front of me on the trail and all the way down the wall I'd hear people shouting 'It's Star! Hi Star!' and I had no idea who they were. As far as I know her only transgression ever was at the T-Wall parking lot when the editor of R&I put her Pop Tart down on a tree stump and it disappeared. But she (the editor) deserved it, we were pretty PO'd that they had just published the OR on W'sides as the 'Classic of the Month', and written up by some do-do from DC none of us had ever heard of. Kind of like them publishing me as an 'expert' writing up 'Last Unicorn' for example. Come to think of it, Star might have been 'encouraged' in her theft.

Best of all, I bought her a pack and made her carry a rope, shoes, quart of water, the guidebook, and anything else I could think of. Top that.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 02, 2013, 06:39:53 pm
A southern lab-- now that's a suspect dog  ;) Did the mutt come from Fayetville ???? That may explain things.

let's not go southern here.. or maybe???
Title: Re: Education
Post by: WanderlustMD on April 09, 2013, 02:53:29 pm
And I've never met any climber, anywhere, who didn't have the attitude that 'if you can climb [in my local region], you can climb anywhere.' So you're right, travel is key.

^that
Title: Re: Education
Post by: terminusnout on April 24, 2013, 11:15:35 pm
The two best areas in the east coast for climbing for me would be New Hammy and North Carolina. My fav styles of climbing are cracks, corners and slabs so the proof is in the pudding. My two favorite routes of all time are VMC and Traditions. Pappy is right.....Laurel Knob is the largest cliff on the east coast. Unruly dogs are the worst at the crags, I caught some quebequeerbaits dog ripping at my wild things pack to get at food at rumney, I shouted at the dog several times to get it away and when it wouldnt go, I pushed it with my foot. The dogs owner tried to start some shit but backed down when I started screaming at him...."you want to catch my fade motherfucker?......".
Title: Re: Education
Post by: M_Sprague on April 30, 2013, 10:02:15 am
quebequeerbaits? What's wrong with you, Casey? Why don't you throw in some "niggers" and "hymies" while you are at it? With use of lowlife terms like that, I pretty much dismiss anything else you have to say.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: terminusnout on April 30, 2013, 11:30:43 am
its up to you to get offended mark, im cool with you being bothered by it.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: M_Sprague on April 30, 2013, 12:54:19 pm
It is a small case of the same mentality of the Westborough Church freaks. They don't affect me personally, but I would certainly speak up if I met any of them, as I think everyone should. My grandmother used to call Macadamia nuts "nigger toes" She was an intelligent, worldly, bohemian woman of her times and I wouldn't consider her racist. She was at least being ironic in a private setting, but in this day and age if she was alive I would of let her know it wasn't really a kosher term to use (she would have figured that out 40 years ago). "Queerbait" just reveals the speaker's own ugly insecurities, offends most people and is pretty useless as part of the conversation otherwise.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: WharfRat on April 30, 2013, 01:20:50 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ0B6kvFy-k
Title: Re: Education
Post by: terminusnout on April 30, 2013, 02:28:22 pm
So that's where the beasties got that sample....

I understand your sentiment mark but its a joke, given it is at someone else's expense I still don't have any issue with it. I grew up with having two uncles, I never had a concept of two people feeling affection for each other being "bad" until I went to public junior high school. I appreciate your banter and the watchdog idealism however when it comes down to it, comparing my joking play on words to the mentality of the westboro folks is asinine at best.

Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 30, 2013, 05:22:52 pm
Maybe snout is just a retard   :-*  Right case ???  Join the grroup
Title: Re: Education
Post by: eyebolter on April 30, 2013, 06:01:11 pm
The funny thing is that homosexuals call each other "queer," and blacks call each other "nigger" all the time.

It is only racist or homophobic if straight white males say it.

Which is in itself racist and heterophobic.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: WharfRat on April 30, 2013, 06:22:03 pm
Maybe snout is just a retard   :-*  Right case ???  Join the grroup

I will  vouch for Snout being a retahd kid but there we go again throwing around hurtful words guy lol......

Title: Re: Education
Post by: terminusnout on April 30, 2013, 06:33:53 pm
what ward said, and in addition I would like to add that I have black friends who refer to me as "n*gger" as well.

"well, that's just....like.....your opinion maaaan..."
-Jeffery Lebowski.
Title: Re: Education
Post by: strandman on April 30, 2013, 07:16:59 pm
I call a gay friend of mine -" my little baby gorilla" he likes it
Title: Re: Education
Post by: WharfRat on April 30, 2013, 07:40:16 pm
I call a gay friend of mine -" my little baby gorilla" he likes it

lol i bet he does ;)