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General => Epics and Accidents => Topic started by: eyebolter on November 25, 2014, 02:32:39 PM

Title: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: eyebolter on November 25, 2014, 02:32:39 PM
On Sunday, a local Rumney climber fell before clipping the first bolt on Sally's Alley (11c) at the New Wave Wall.  She was evacuated by the fast squad and by local climbers.  Her prognosis is unknown.

The route was well within her limit, and in my defense the guidebook does say "stick clip."

Be careful out there, even if you think it is "easy" ground.

Ward
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: old_school on November 26, 2014, 08:34:58 AM
speedy and full recovery to her
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: xcrag_corex on November 26, 2014, 06:24:10 PM
Speedy recovery!!!!
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: eyebolter on November 26, 2014, 06:24:38 PM
My brother assisted with the rescue. Apparently she was trying to understate the obvious pain of her injury and should be ok, though something is broken for sure.  It was her regular warm up that she had done about 100 times. 

Mrs. Eyebolter is all over me for my highball exploits.  I rehearse them, but as the recent accidents  demonstrate you can never be too careful.
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: lucky luke on November 26, 2014, 06:25:48 PM
On Sunday, a local Rumney climber fell before clipping the first bolt on Sally's Alley (11c)

sport climbing accident for sure, but she  can have a basic of trad climbing and don't use a stick clip for that reason.

any way, full recovery

Jacques
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: sneoh on November 26, 2014, 06:35:15 PM
Hey, Jacques, I agree with you on this one.  If she (and I think I know who she is) has done the route 100 times before I can see why she did not bother with the stick clip.
The start is a little funky on this route.   Quite a few of the holds are of rock which have a high mica content.  These always feel a little slick to me.
Well , wishing her a speedy and full recovery.

Chris comes through again!  That guy is everywhere ALL THE TIME!
The Mrs. is right, Ward.  Be careful, which I know you are already.
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: Nick Grant on December 02, 2014, 09:41:27 PM
My son knows the woman who fell.  He told me that she is a really good climber (she gave him move-by-move beta for Flesh for Lulu which she can—ho hum—just walk up.)  He also said that she has done Salley's Alley many, many times as a warm-up route, and this particular time she slipped on some ICE.  He also said her injuries were pretty severe—I can't remember exactly, but I think he said broken ankles and stuff like that.
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: lucky luke on December 03, 2014, 07:38:18 AM
Hey, Jacques, I agree with you on this one. 

You agree that it is a sport climbing accident means that there is a distinction with trad accident. particularly with sport climber doing sport accident in trad route
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: Jeff on December 03, 2014, 09:08:44 AM
The fact that it was on a bolted climb does not make it a "sport ethic" or "trad ethic" accident-- the unfortunate climber, apparently VERY experienced, even on the climb in question, fell off  from high enough to get hurt BEFORE getting protection!! To me that makes it a CLIMBING ACCIDENT, full stop! Having been injured myself and fortunately recovered, I wish her full recovery and a much longer life in this sport we all love. I'm really tired of all the discussion trying to make a distinction, probably because when I began doing it
(yes, it WAS 5 decades ago) we called it CLIMBING and accepted everyone who did it as part of the tribe! Luke-- Le cheval est mort; arête de le battre, s'il te plaît!
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: old_school on December 03, 2014, 09:17:08 AM
I wish her full recovery and a much longer life in this sport we all love. I'm really tired of all the discussion trying to make a distinction, probably because when I began doing it (yes, it WAS 5 decades ago) we called it CLIMBING and accepted everyone who did it as part of the tribe!

End of discussion!  ;)
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: DaveR on December 03, 2014, 09:20:00 AM
The fact that it was on a bolted climb does not make it a "sport ethic" or "trad ethic" accident-- the unfortunate climber, apparently VERY experienced, even on the climb in question, fell off  from high enough to get hurt BEFORE getting protection!! To me that makes it a CLIMBING ACCIDENT, full stop! Having been injured myself and fortunately recovered, I wish her full recovery and a much longer life in this sport we all love. I'm really tired of all the discussion trying to make a distinction, probably because when I began doing it
(yes, it WAS 5 decades ago) we climbed it CLIMBING and accepted everyone who did it as part of the tribe! Luke-- Le cheval est mort; arête de le battre, s'il te plaît!

A++
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: DGoguen on December 03, 2014, 10:32:08 AM
End of discussion!  ;)

 ;D
Breaking Trad
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: xcrag_corex on December 03, 2014, 12:12:20 PM
Careful Dgoguen,
You may be stepping on JBro's territory with that comment..... We don't need anymore scrapping around here. Haha
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: old_school on December 03, 2014, 12:30:42 PM

 ;D
Breaking Trad

Lmao  ;D
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: lucky luke on December 03, 2014, 12:40:34 PM
The fact that it was on a bolted climb does not make it a "sport ethic" or "trad ethic" accident-- the unfortunate climber, apparently VERY experienced, even on the climb in question, fell off  from high enough to get hurt BEFORE getting protection!! To me that makes it a CLIMBING ACCIDENT, full stop!

For you is climbing accident, and in the case of the thread, i saw those mistake in both ethic.

I went this summer to the gunks and I saw many climber using four pro in a two pitch route, mostly old piton. The young women who died is a model of that kind of mistake, easy to avoid, except when they think that it is climbing to unprotected a pitch when you are a 5.11 sport climber.

In trad, we often prefer to protect easy section than hard section with a safe fall. When you protect in easy ground, you  loose less energy than in the crux of the route. We know that low angle is more dangerous than steep one because you hit the rock. the goal is to protect well and understand a move without beta

In sport, many people think that the results, the summit, justify to take the risk...particularly when a sport climber is in a trad cliff   
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: DaveR on December 03, 2014, 01:24:32 PM
For you is climbing accident, and in the case of the thread, i saw those mistake in both ethic.

I went this summer to the gunks and I saw many climber using four pro in a two pitch route, mostly old piton. The young women who died is a model of that kind of mistake, easy to avoid, except when they think that it is climbing to unprotected a pitch when you are a 5.11 sport climber.

In trad, we often prefer to protect easy section than hard section with a safe fall. When you protect in easy ground, you  loose less energy than in the crux of the route. We know that low angle is more dangerous than steep one because you hit the rock. the goal is to protect well and understand a move without beta

In sport, many people think that the results, the summit, justify to take the risk...particularly when a sport climber is in a trad cliff   



BLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: xcrag_corex on December 03, 2014, 03:30:35 PM
For you is climbing accident, and in the case of the thread, i saw those mistake in both ethic.

I went this summer to the gunks and I saw many climber using four pro in a two pitch route, mostly old piton. The young women who died is a model of that kind of mistake, easy to avoid, except when they think that it is climbing to unprotected a pitch when you are a 5.11 sport climber.

In trad, we often prefer to protect easy section than hard section with a safe fall. When you protect in easy ground, you  loose less energy than in the crux of the route. We know that low angle is more dangerous than steep one because you hit the rock. the goal is to protect well and understand a move without beta

In sport, many people think that the results, the summit, justify to take the risk...particularly when a sport climber is in a trad cliff   



BLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave you must be sport Forumnist. In traditional Forum ethic, one takes the time to place the H in BLA(H). I take a trip on World Wide Web this summer and find lots of sport ethic in traditional style forum.....
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: eyebolter on December 03, 2014, 04:09:54 PM
My son knows the woman who fell.  He told me that she is a really good climber (she gave him move-by-move beta for Flesh for Lulu which she can—ho hum—just walk up.)  He also said that she has done Salley's Alley many, many times as a warm-up route, and this particular time she slipped on some ICE.  He also said her injuries were pretty severe—I can't remember exactly, but I think he said broken ankles and stuff like that.

Thanks for the report, that makes perfect sense.  I was bolting a new route on the Main Cliff the day before and it was 18 degrees and overcast when I showed up in the parking lot at 9 a.m (the only car on a weekend, lol).  It was supposed to be sunny (though cold) that day, and we did actually see the sun for about a 1/2 hour, but it was mostly overcast and never got much above freezing.

Sometimes I get lazy on easy routes like "Son of Sammy" (a now bolted 5.8+ that is nearby) and want to boulder the start instead of stick-clipping since I've done the route tons and have never fallen.  But then I think of what a moron I would look like if cratered into the talus with a stick clip 5 feet away.

Not slagging the woman in the accident, we've all done similar things at one time or another.

However, one lesson that is absolutely true is that conditions in climbing change all the time.  Heck, your own condition changes all the time.  I remember reading about a guy who cratered on a 5.9 in boulder canyon that he had soloed 100+ times...but that day the hold at the end of the crux was ice covered.  Through luck he lived to tell about it, but as Royal Robbins said in one of his Rockcraft books: "Eventually, luck runs out."



Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: DaveR on December 03, 2014, 07:01:02 PM
"Eventually, luck runs out."

or "Shit happens!"

I hope all works out for her Ward. These things always cause me to think a little bit about the dangers of climbing, it just goes to prove anyone can have shit luck!

As I have gotten older I am also a lot more willing to clip the first bolt. 10 years ago I called that "cheating" and terrified Bill S. more than a few times
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: DaveR on December 03, 2014, 07:08:17 PM

BLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLABLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave you must be sport Forumnist. In traditional Forum ethic, one takes the time to place the H in BLA(H). I take a trip on World Wide Web this summer and find lots of sport ethic in traditional style forum.....
[/quote]

Jeremy,
I will work hard to repent and turn from the dark side of sport forming. :'(

I also now seek out LL to help me learn the ways of the tradmaster! :P Maybe he can show me how to do the offwidth section of "Pine Tree Eliminate." ;D
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: lucky luke on December 03, 2014, 08:31:16 PM
However, one lesson that is absolutely true is that conditions in climbing change all the time.  Heck, your own condition changes all the time.  I remember reading about a guy who cratered on a 5.9 in boulder canyon that he had soloed 100+ times...but that day the hold at the end of the crux was ice covered.  Through luck he lived to tell about it, but as Royal Robbins said in one of his Rockcraft books: "Eventually, luck runs out."

if you have thirty percent chance to fall, and you climb 100 times, you are in danger about 30 times. If you climb in sport and clip bolt, the danger is lower and the climber can climb higher level. A 5.10 at Rumney with bolt, is less dangerous than a 5.10 at cathedral. So, the trad climber most be prepare to deck and the sport climber should stay in bolt route.   
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: DaveR on December 03, 2014, 09:17:30 PM

if you have thirty percent chance to fall, and you climb 100 times, you are in danger about 30 times. If you climb in sport and clip bolt, the danger is lower and the climber can climb higher level. A 5.10 at Rumney with bolt, is less dangerous than a 5.10 at cathedral. So, the trad climber most be prepare to deck and the sport climber should stay in bolt route.


BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: xcrag_corex on December 03, 2014, 09:25:29 PM

if you have thirty percent chance to fall, and you climb 100 times, you are in danger about 30 times. If you climb in sport and clip bolt, the danger is lower and the climber can climb higher level. A 5.10 at Rumney with bolt, is less dangerous than a 5.10 at cathedral. So, the trad climber most be prepare to deck and the sport climber should stay in bolt route.


BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH
now you got it! You can come back from the dark side....
Title: Re: Another accident at Rumney
Post by: DGoguen on December 03, 2014, 09:34:28 PM
"Abandon hope all ye who enter here."
The sign at the gates of hell in "Dantes Inferno"