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R&I continues to confuse climbers by calling the knot in question a "variation" of the EDK (or more accurately the flat-overhand, or flat overhand bend if you want to be technical).

They did the same with this poorly researched article pack in March:

http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-accidents/euro-death-knot-mysteriously-fails

My comment then:

...EDK is not "a version of the flat-8". Your readers deserve more accurate reporting. You should clearly show the EDK (more accuratly called the flat over-hand), the eight-in-line (safe but hard to untie) and the flat 8 (deadly and easily capsizes). The mis-understanding between these three very different knots (not versions) has caused enough confusion and accidents for decades.

A reverse traced 8 bend is 100% safe and lays very "flat", so I can see why so many new climbers confuse that bend with tying an 8 via the same method one ties a flat-overhand, except it's one more wrap around both strands before pulling through the formed loop. This way of tying a "flat eight" as media likes to call it has been known to capsize and fail under body-weight for decades, yet the existence of the reverse traced 8 with looks almost identical, continues to deceive newish climbers and unfortunately keeps leading to loss of life.

You probably don't realize it, but in your fervor to post your perceived expertise and store bought credentials, that you misquoted the original article?

"and tied the ends together with a flat figure-8 knot, a variation of the Euro Death Knot (EDK)."

Your opinion loses all credibility if you can't even read correctly.  Tool.
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Injuries, Medical & Training / Re: Spider bite
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on Yesterday at 09:30:30 PM »
Thanks for the upcoming nightmares I am sure to have because of this thread. I effin' HATE spiders. When I was in the Marines we did some jungle warfare training in Okinawa and I remember the pleasure of walking through the jungle at night with "light discipline" i.e. blind as a bat and walking through multiple large webs. One platoon mate received a bite on his trachea, suspected banana spider, and was laid up for over a week. Locally I think I smashed a large brown recluse on Hotter Than Hell years ago. When I climbed the route again a week later the crushed arachnid was still there. In the Gunks I think my dog got bit by a Black Widow... his hind quarters were paralyzed for about 36 hours... no other guesses what could have caused it (he was digging in the leaf litter in the little underhangs at the base of the cliff to stay cool... probably prime Black Widow territory.

DaveR... hope you get better soon.

Why am I so itchy right now...
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Injuries, Medical & Training / Re: Spider bite
« Last post by Jeff on Yesterday at 06:44:40 PM »
DaveR-- yes, the pain level was crazy-- I was at a table in a fine restaurant when it hit and I started writhing, twitching and trying to stifle moans-- my folks and daughter finished their desserts while my wife drove me to the ER-- I didn't dare drive myself--- worst pain I've had, and I've been through a number of broken bones, an ACL repair and 2 hip replacement surgeries plus rehab form all the above. Nasty bugger.

 Re: Brown Recluse bites-- an ambulance crew chief I used to work with got one high on the inside of his thigh  (in Connecticut--probably hitch hiked on a load of fruit or some such from the south)-- it became necrotic and left him with an ugly hole more than an inch deep and bigger than a silver dollar (old measuring unit ;D); a medic in the hospital who had worked in the South West finally identified what caused it, having seen the same thing before!
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Partner Exchange / Partner Needed: 10/1 and/or 10/2 in NH
« Last post by dave095790 on Yesterday at 06:26:56 PM »
Looking at Cannon (anything, or possibly VMC DD) or North Conway (specifically the 5.10 face routes at the Thin Air Face and left side of White Horse).  Also eyeing Crack in the Woods.  Open to other destinations as well. 

Lead everything or swing leads to 5.10 or follow harder.  Open to easy cruising too, just need a partner. 

Thanks!

Dave

239-two-three-three-2002
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by ralbert20 on Yesterday at 02:23:18 PM »
Great article David. As soon as I posted the question, I went and tied the flat overhand bend, and immediately saw the issue(s) you present. Personally, I always use the overhand now, even though I was taught to use the retraced figure of 8. I am glad I never thought of short cutting the tracing, as it would have been something I could have easily seen myself doing when I was learning.

Thanks for educating me!
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by rbirk on Yesterday at 01:54:30 PM »
If it prevents one person from making the mistake of using the flat figure of eight bend I'm glad I wrote it.

+Many
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Gear Exchange / Grivel G-12 New-Matic Crampons $130
« Last post by ex-c on Yesterday at 10:11:50 AM »
Excellent condition Grivel G-12 New-Matic Crampons. Used only a couple of times. Bindings will attach to almost any mountaineering boot. Anti-balling plates on bottom keep snow from accumulating under the crampon. Throwing in an OR crampon pouch that you can attach to your backpack.
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on Yesterday at 09:57:04 AM »
Nice pun  ;D  If it prevents one person from making the mistake of using the flat figure of eight bend I'm glad I wrote it.
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Gear Exchange / Asolo Evoluzione Mountaineering Boots Size 8.5 - $90
« Last post by ex-c on Yesterday at 08:38:16 AM »
Get ready for winter climbing now. Mint condition, barely used Asolo Evoluzione plastic double boots. Crampon compatible. Perfect for ice climbing and winter hiking. Keep your feet warm and dry.
I'm in Cambridge, MA.
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by neiceclimber on Yesterday at 08:09:44 AM »
Knot going to make you famous.
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