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Epics and Accidents / Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on Today at 07:54:41 PM »
To navigate in adverse conditions, one can things at a compass. But in cold windy weather....good luck.

I'll elaborate for you. In cold windy weather, if one has a "White Out Navigation Plan", one already know's what bearing to follow to reach, say... the Alpine Garden Trail, or better yet the Escape Hatch Shovel.... this was figured out in the warmth of home (or Frontside Grind). There isn't much of an issue using a compass in harsh conditions if one already knows what bearing one must follow... so... "good luck"? No.... "Good planning"....
Epics and Accidents / Re: Lost climbers- Odell Gully 2/5/16
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on Today at 07:49:39 PM »
some good climber from Everest should be able to gave more sigh to navigate.

Get ready for a bubble burst here. I currently have the pleasure of having Phil Crampton in my AIARE 2 course ATM. He attended an AIARE 1 a couple weeks ago and is observing these courses so he can try to bring some structured avalanche awareness back to his 40+ Sherpa Team... Some things he has taught me the last couple weeks:

1) Everest climbers (and most high altitude climbers) in general have little snow sense. If it is snowing, they leave the mountain and go home. It's too dangerous (kinda goes against your whole "climb in the snowstorm mentality".

2) They can't navigate. Most climbers, guides, and Sherpa follow very defined routes. The Sherpa's (who live there) would be lost if they were brought to a new mountain route a few kilometers away. He said most don't know how to use a compass, though they love to search for buried beacons (pretty much always recovery in these areas).

3) We handle cold better. Phil thought our field session at 3000 feet today was a bit brutal and was amazed guides were up on the summit cone today in -50 wind chills. These conditions would keep most high altitude climbers, guides, and sherpas from leaving their sleeping bags. Washington really is an amazing training ground!

So... "good climber from Everest".... think again. Endurance, Fitness, Money, and luck (handling high altitude), will get you up Everest. Skills? Few are needed... especially navigational skills...
Ice & Winter Climbing / Re: Goofers Delight with 60m rope
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on Today at 07:35:40 PM »
I might be going out on a limb, but I think Al was suggesting that most people don't climb Goofers Delight with a V-thread tool.

this I find odd... if leading ice this is standard equipment IMO, regardless of grade
Ice & Winter Climbing / Re: Maybe a bit silly?
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on Today at 07:33:15 PM »
I've never felt the WI scale considers protection, just technical difficulty of the moves.
Ice & Winter Climbing / Maybe a bit silly?
« Last post by Nemesis on Today at 05:59:00 PM »
I'm hoping I'm not completely alone on this one.  First of all, my hat goes off to these climbers, I think it's an impressive achievement.  Here comes the but.  I've always accepted as truth, that the harder grades of ice climbing somewhat signified marginal protection, i.e. the higher the grade the harder the climb was to protect.  Can it really be WI 12 if you're clipping bolts??  What say you?
Wishing safe travels to the party attempting the presi traverse this weekend...if they haven't already bailed.
Two weeks ago, we started up to Walk in the Forest, and after 50 feet of slow careful uphill walking/step kicking in mud/stepping on tree stumps, etc. we gave in, stopped and put on crampons. Yeah we had to worry about crampons getting leaf clogged but we didn't slip, and that seemed to be the point! ;D
Temps have been dropping all day and the wind is picking up. Here at Cathedral at 5:13 it's a chilly 0 degrees with a wind chill of -15! Bundle up folks.
Ice & Winter Climbing / Re: Goofers Delight with 60m rope
« Last post by Admin Al on Today at 05:10:13 PM »
If you can bring (2) 60 meter ropes it is a lot easier to get down in 1 rappel over all the other methods.

LOL... there is some truth to that.
This year of little to no snow makes approaches sketch!

I witnessed a guy slip five feet below the 1st belay of Standard a few days ago. Dude slid ten feet until a bush caught his fall. I hate to think what could've been. Would he have stopped at the tracks? Below?  I think he was with a guide too..
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