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 1 
 on: Today at 12:54:18 AM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by lucky luke
LL- you still miss the point..a first ascent can only be done once...no matter what, you know a route has been done, you know it goes..that helps a lot.

look at something like Cannon..you basically know where the route goes..you can see ledges and corners and roofs...you get a basic pattern of the climb

being in a remote area means nothing about difficult or routefinding at all..you just get less chance to fuck up..its not the climbing that does it.. a 5.10 corner is a 5.10 corner.. friend of mine did a big ,new climb in the Yukon..he placed bolts...he climbed wide cracks etc.. its not sport/trad..its climbing

I know many place where some one climb a route and didn't say nothing about it. Few years later, some one claim the first ascent. We had a polymic with iceland climber about Quebec climber opening new route done long time before. Some guide bring there clients in France on a spire and place block as a proof of first ascent. He climb the spire the next morning to pull the block down. Finally, he bring an other client for a first ascent of the same spire two or three times.

First ascent means nothing. You can take a picture and read the rock to find the path of less resistance and choose to climb. It is as much a first ascent than if you had a line in a book that you have to follow. The guide book is to avoid that some one loss is time trying some thing over is head or too easy. If you keep the information at the level of a first ascent, with some clue for route finding to avoid that the guy take three days...it is doing trad with all the difficulty of route finding, not knowing if you are in the good place, not knowing if the corner is 5.8 or 5.10. In some climb, I keep my strength to do a hard move at the second pitch, but the crux was at the four???

For the bolt, you can use it as convenience. In down east, placing a bolt in the crux and the route is not even a route...as it is dirty and the rock was loose (I climbed some thing there, North south west). Driving a piton in the rock or driving a bolt on a slab is not so different. The game is not to be kill when we climb, but it is not to make the move as easy as a boulder problem on the ground. In placing bolt in trad, it is not to work the route, it is to save your life in a fall.

Look at what you wrote Strandman. Even if you take position for sport climbing, you wrote with a lot of knowledge. Many sport/trad climber don't have that knowledge. The decision to do many hard move in a row, instead of few hard move with a long approach and insecurity is not criticized by me. It is a challenge to do hard move and it is a challenge to do a route like a first ascent. If you change the cliff to be able to say that you are good and have your name on the next guide book, I will say some thing else. If you have contemps for the psychological challenge of route finding, protection for safety, not for progression (except for aid climbing)...I will be more agressive. Our differences is about what is sport and trad. You think that just changing a bolt for a cam and you are a trad climber... In the NCCS, they avoid to discuss protection because it is not climbing...it is when you fall. So, the distinction between trad and sport is not protection. Climber fall in both.     

 2 
 on: Yesterday at 11:19:15 PM 
Started by Admin Al - Last post by xcrag_corex
Supercool 8) !!!!

 3 
 on: Yesterday at 10:25:38 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by tradmanclimbz
The climb i mentioned earlier. 1st pitch was all trad  with a bolted belay just to piss luke off. P 2 I drilled one bolt w/ Steve and then bailed because the birds were comming within a foot of my head at 100mph or whatever they do. came back a month later and noticed that someone had bailed from a pink tri cam after my last bolt (real trad climber no doubt) I went up there with woody and backed the crappy pink up with a blade and tried to stance drill. Too steep to get any love so I gently settled down on a hook. It blew, the pink tricam blew and my blade held. Woody caught his first leader fall ever when I almost landed on his head. nothing like a nice 20 footer that almost takes out your belayer :o then woody got stung by bees so we called it a day. pretty sure  did a large trundel on lead that day as well.  Pretty much retired that dude from climbing that day? I guess he decided it was dangerous? Went back up with a total stranger (Jermy?)  We got off route on the bushwack in. My partner fell in the talus and sliced his wrist pretty bad. I taped it up good and he opted to continue. Super good sport! We boogied up to my high point and then it got slow again. A few trundels, 3 more hand drilled bolts  and a few pins through the roof to a super thin stance above the roof. The only logical way up from there was back right accross my rope and above my partner through a pile of loose stacked boulders. No way was i doing that without bringing my partner up first and getting the rope stacked out of harms way. Hand drilled a 2 bolt anchor. All 3/8ths X 2 3/4" stainless. It was about a 5 or 6hr pitch. partner followed clean @ 10a and we called it a day. Came by myself and rapped in to do the most dangerous trundel. came back with larry. climbed the 1st two pitches to the hanging belay, climbed 15ft of 5.6x right off the belay through questionable rock to an alcove, bolt up a large left faceing corner, moved right through a talus covered ledge (big trundel) pounded a KB in just to piss luke off ;D green alien , good #7 stopper, red camalot and annother stopper through a broken left faceing corner gains large stacked blocks and the summit. Isabella 5.10a 
Yea, I guess it must be a sport climb  8)

Hand drilling with the angry birds and Isa @ the hanging belay after the crux roof

 4 
 on: Yesterday at 10:24:29 PM 
Started by Bilbo - Last post by Bilbo
Aliens, green and yellow.  Used but not abused, good action.  $35 ea.

BD Hexes, #4, 5, 7, 8 and a WC Rockcentric to fill the #6 slot. 
Hexes newly reslung in November with 5.5 spectra cord.  $27 for the set.

Wild Country Ropeman II, like new condition. $32.


 5 
 on: Yesterday at 10:14:57 PM 
Started by Admin Al - Last post by JoeC
Way Cool!

 6 
 on: Yesterday at 09:34:15 PM 
Started by Admin Al - Last post by Admin Al
Done by Jimmy Surette. VERY cool...

https://www.plymouth.edu/museum-of-the-white-mountains/17446/section-1-climbers-and-bedrock/

 7 
 on: Yesterday at 08:30:22 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by sneoh
You can just notice how stupid that can be...after 25 years of climbing trad at 5.10 without bolt in remote area that I didn't know what is a first ascent. That kind of sport/trad climber who will say I open a route and shit in his pant because there is a 5.6 run out in a route 5.10.
This kind of talk works against you, LL. Severely.  I am skeptical that Tradman will "shit in his pants" running it out on a 5.6.  How many of that 25 years have you climbed at 5.10?  It must have taken you quite a few years to climb all the 5.7 through 5.9 at Cathedral, Canon, etc before moving on to 5.10.  Isn't that your systematic approach, do all routes you come across at a grade (say 5.7) before progressing to the next?
 

 8 
 on: Yesterday at 06:43:37 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by strandman
LL- you still miss the point..a first ascent can only be done once...no matter what, you know a route has been done, you know it goes..that helps a lot.

look at something like Cannon..you basically know where the route goes..you can see ledges and corners and roofs...you get a basic pattern of the climb

being in a remote area means nothing about difficult or routefinding at all..you just get less chance to fuck up..its not the climbing that does it.. a 5.10 corner is a 5.10 corner.. friend of mine did a big ,new climb in the Yukon..he placed bolts...he climbed wide cracks etc.. its not sport/trad..its climbing

Fuck man ..i clip bolts and have even placed some  today was  5 bolts on a new route. You know why ?  because there were no cracks and no walk off...you must be really limited in NE climbing if you don't clip bolts (or pins)



 9 
 on: Yesterday at 06:14:38 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by kenreville
How many times does it need to be said LL- your OBSESSION with trad/sport and their differences is unhealthy. It continues to emphasize that you have issues with climbing. Mental issues.

And please, so you've climbed Fugue. BFD. So have I. You repeatedly bring it up like it's some sort of badge. It is not. 

 10 
 on: Yesterday at 06:07:57 PM 
Started by DaveR - Last post by kenreville
eff that. I'm getting better. Old is a state of mind.

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