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31
Injuries, Medical & Training / Spider bite
« Last post by DaveR on September 28, 2016, 10:55:02 AM »
Went climbing this past Sunday and got bit by a spider in a crack I had my hand jammed in. The only mark was a tiny dot on my wrist that looked like a Black fly bite. The result, 1 hour later pain from my fingertips to my elbow that was so bad I took an oxy left over from my bike crash last year and a hand and wrist so swollen I could not bend my wrist or fingers until this morning. The pain is still pretty bad and it is still hard to even hold a glass in my hand. It remains to be seen when I will climb again! The doc says I will just have to wait it out. >:( :P
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by pappy on September 28, 2016, 10:16:29 AM »
I was rapping down Wheeler with a couple of other guys after doing the Great Corner, and setting up the last rap I saw that John had tied the ropes together with a flat eight. I was unamused and said that he might have a death wish, but I didn't. He got semi-belligerent and said that he had used it for years (he's been climbing for nearly twenty years, so not a newbie) and he knew lots of other climbers who used it, and it was just fine. Whatever. I checked to make sure that he had plenty of tail and reminded him of one of the Southern rules of booty: You get hurt being a moron we don't do a rescue, we hit you in the head with a rock and split your gear. As he started down I told Jeff to watch the knot, which during the rap rolled three or four inches down the rope, and that is a low angle rap. Needless to say, after John was down I retied the ropes with a triple fisherman's (my knot of choice, f**k the EDK). Jeff told his brother what he had seen, and John turned kind of pale. Don't think he uses the flat 8 anymore. Cheap lesson.
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on September 27, 2016, 11:01:35 AM »
I just published a post with images of the various knots in question, and proposed a solution for trying to avoid these accidents. Please check it out:

https://northeastalpinestart.com/2016/09/27/one-of-these-knots-can-kill-you/

34
Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by alwoodsmithy on September 27, 2016, 09:16:16 AM »
Got it - thanks everyone.

Will stick to flat overhand AKA EDK but have longer tails. Before I rap I just make sure I tighten the EDK from every direction and every individual strand, which presumably makes it less likely to wiggle loose and untie somehow.
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by JBro on September 26, 2016, 10:39:25 PM »
The easiest way to avoid confusing people is to just say fuck the figure 8 for rappelling and just use the EDK (flat overhand). It's safe, it's easy to tie and untie, and unlike a flat 8 you can't confuse it with something that looks similar but is potentially dangerous.

Keep it simple.

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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on September 26, 2016, 10:21:28 PM »
Problem is there are two knots that many climbers refer to as a flat 8.

1) tie the "pre-8" like you're getting reading to tie a retraced 8. With other rope retrace the eight in the opposite direction. This knot is safe with sufficient tail (but hard to untie after load)

2) grab both strands and wrap around twice and through formed loop. This looks physically the same if used with same color rope. This rolls easily and kills people.

I'm going to put a short video together tomorrow showing the difference.
37
Gear Exchange / Re: Free to a good home
« Last post by ralbert20 on September 26, 2016, 10:16:08 PM »
You lie yourself.

You LAY others...
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by ralbert20 on September 26, 2016, 10:15:05 PM »
Ok, time to educate me. What is a flat 8? Google only brings me the normal retraced figure 8.
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by JBro on September 26, 2016, 08:48:45 PM »
EDK (flat overhand) is safe but I would go with longer than 6-inch tails.  Just don't make the tails so long that you could accidentally feed a tail into your rappel device.

 
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Epics and Accidents / Re: EDK variation Knot slip - climber dies (WA)
« Last post by NEAlpineStart on September 26, 2016, 08:24:23 PM »
Oh and here's the article OP is referring to:

http://www.rockandice.com/climbing-accidents/rappel-knot-fails-climber-falls-to-death-on-the-goat-wall

You can read the comments on both... R&I needs to start reporting these accidents in a more productive manner vrs. adding to the confusion.
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