NEClimbs.com forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Reading the forum on your cell phone? There's an easier way. We've enabled a Tapatalk app that makes browsing the forum a whole lot easier. Check it out in the iPhone or Android store if you don't own it already.

Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10]
 91 
 on: October 16, 2014, 11:19:08 AM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by ed_esmond
Instinct is learned subconsciously...

i couldn't understand enough of the rest of Lucky's post to know if i agree or disagree with it, but i do understand enough to know that the above statement is wrong.

"Instinct" isn't learned...  it's "inborn" and "innate."

"instinct" is inherent in an organism at birth. here are some simple examples of "instinct:"

-a baby does not need to be taught (either consciously or subconsciously) to suckle at it's mother nipple.

-a dung beetle does not need to be taught to do the dung beetle mating dance.
   
-a robin do not need to be taught how to build its nest.

it's difficult to know but i think Lucky is babbling about training in a way that causes certain actions become a "reflex."

a "reflex" is not the same as an "instinct."

ed e

ps  Lucky, I know i'm being picky. but, if you going to lecture, please have enough respect  for the rest of us to know what your talking about.  you've prattered on about Maslow in the past, so i know you've heard all of this sometime.
   



 92 
 on: October 15, 2014, 11:36:04 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by sneoh
David, well done on the interpretation.  I think all of us can agree everything makes sense there.

Luke/Champ, if you stop talking down to 90+% of the visitors here about safety, trad "ethics", blah, blah, blah, you will get a lot more meaningful discussions.  Your definition of who is a real trad climber is so narrow that you lose credibility in the eyes of non fanatical persons.  That is largely why people rarely engage you in meaningful debate, whether or not your thread has been hijacked is not really the point.
Sorry about your second misadventure at Yosemite.  Got to watch out for those deceptive posers at Camp 4 :)

 93 
 on: October 15, 2014, 11:19:47 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by Echo

It is not correct and safe practice that people teach as the "standard method".


What is this "standard method" you speak of?

 94 
 on: October 15, 2014, 09:51:36 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by lucky luke
I believe that what lucky Luke wants to say is that trad climbing begins with learning correct and safe practices that need to be rehearsed many times until they become habit. That way we intuitively will do the right things when we become pumped, scared or in general a little bit extended in our climbing abilities. We are not sure if we can always rely on our concious problem solving skills when there is a heightened level of perceived danger. Over time we will get better at maintaining a calm rational perspective but, there will be times when we need to resort to good habits that are carried out unconsciously. This set of habits or unconcious skills can sometimes make the difference in keeping safe or incuring injury.

I think it is good

correct and safe practices to see the danger and to be able to avoid it later.

It is not correct and safe practice that people teach as the "standard method".

A correct and safe practices are one that will bring you home happy and tired what ever happen...and the practices could be non conventional.

 95 
 on: October 15, 2014, 07:58:01 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by David_G48
I believe that what lucky Luke wants to say is that trad climbing begins with learning correct and safe practices that need to be rehearsed many times until they become habit. That way we intuitively will do the right things when we become pumped, scared or in general a little bit extended in our climbing abilities. We are not sure if we can always rely on our concious problem solving skills when there is a heightened level of perceived danger. Over time we will get better at maintaining a calm rational perspective but, there will be times when we need to resort to good habits that are carried out unconsciously. This set of habits or unconcious skills can sometimes make the difference in keeping safe or incuring injury.

Luke does this sum up what you were saying? If not feel free to clarify.

 96 
 on: October 15, 2014, 07:06:26 PM 
Started by strandman - Last post by steve weitzler
Enough with this light hiking shit. What I really want to know John is there sex after knee replacement?  ;) ;)

 97 
 on: October 15, 2014, 06:14:59 PM 
Started by lucky luke - Last post by lucky luke
I think you were trying to say that it is important for new climbers to learn instincts so that in times of stress they will do the right thing (all the boulder, sport, trad and even AMC references are superfluous).  But what you actually said was inconsistent.  At one point you say:

any thing that he learned under stress will come back to his memory

and right after that:

under stress...you loose a part of your capacity to think correctly

So WHAT is your point? 

Our mind work consciously and subconsciously. Instinct is learned subconsciously...so when you lost your capacity to think correctly under stress, your brain stop to work consciously. Every thing that you learned at the gym or in boulder will be forget to try to adapt to the new situation.

Inconsciously, you do thing that help you in the past. If keeping our mind clear is learned by beginner soon enough when they climb, they will adopt the reaction to keep there mind clear in a stressful situation.

As sport beginner learned that climbing is safe...knowing enough movement in bouldering and you will be safe, climb on bolt and you will be safe...etc. the subconscious mind will understand that climbing is safe and there is no danger. The risk of injury in this case is very high. Or people will think that trad climbing is dangerous and won't be able to climb safely.

The reaction of a person under stress is very complicated and will need solid question and answer to just understand the mechanic of thinking in trad. As people interfere just to say that they are good sport climber, those discussion can not be done.

Maybe if you told those climber that wrote to who you to avoid my post, more people who like trad climbing will be able to talk freely

 98 
 on: October 15, 2014, 04:30:24 PM 
Started by David_G48 - Last post by Jeff
David, if Old School believes you about your way to block PI reaction, I've got a bridge in Bartlett to sell him-- it even has a roof, so could serve as a bivvy spot! 8) And it's an easy walk from Endeavor!!

 99 
 on: October 15, 2014, 04:23:20 PM 
Started by David_G48 - Last post by David_G48
"2 ways to kill poison ivy and they both may kill you......an accelerant and fire may do it but if you inhale the fumes...not so good.  REAL roundup, not the Home Depot stuff  but very dangerous w/o protection"

Strandman being on the youthful side you are probably not familiar with 2 other methods; Agent Orange and convincing Old School to pull it out by the roots because while hanging from a rope it blocks the allergic reaction.

 100 
 on: October 15, 2014, 04:15:49 PM 
Started by strandman - Last post by strandman
Coming up on a month now..the biggest problem is the calf area..it's like a really bad shin spling because of muscle imbalance over the years...off the meds so no more nightmares

Walking, kinda and looking at superlight hiking gear

Pages: 1 ... 8 9 [10]

Page created in 0.19 seconds with 19 queries.