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General => Rock Climbing: Sport => Topic started by: M_Sprague on November 16, 2012, 05:29:33 PM

Title: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: M_Sprague on November 16, 2012, 05:29:33 PM
http://www.franceinfo.fr/societe/escalade-patrick-edlinger-est-mort-804739-2012-11-16 (http://www.franceinfo.fr/societe/escalade-patrick-edlinger-est-mort-804739-2012-11-16)

No details yet on cause of death. One of his films was a big part in inspiring me to climb.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: eyebolter on November 16, 2012, 05:44:34 PM
Wow, he wasn't that old.  Brilliant climber who soloed 5.11 barefoot in the Verdon.  An inspiration to me as a barefoot climber.

As The Who said: Just gotta get used to it, we all get it on the end...
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: old_school on November 16, 2012, 06:06:25 PM
Wow, he wasn't that old.  Brilliant climber who soloed 5.11 barefoot in the Verdon.  An inspiration to me as a barefoot climber.

As The Who said: Just gotta get used to it, we all get it on the end...

He was a huge inspiration to me as well Ward. I remember him at Snowbird and was just so amazed at his movement and strength. What a sad loss for us all.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: eyebolter on November 16, 2012, 06:21:01 PM
Wow, he wasn't that old.  Brilliant climber who soloed 5.11 barefoot in the Verdon.  An inspiration to me as a barefoot climber.

As The Who said: Just gotta get used to it, we all get it on the end...

He was a huge inspiration to me as well Ward. I remember him at Snowbird and was just so amazed at his movement and strength. What a sad loss for us all.
I still have the tape of that, not into plastic at all but that was plain brilliant climbing even to a trad.  One of the most influential climbers of the late 20 th century.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: sneoh on November 16, 2012, 07:34:14 PM
Really sad news.
He was so smooth, elegant, and makes it all look so easy when it is not.
Ward, I think he is only a year older than us.  Sobering thought.  Sigh.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: Admin Al on November 16, 2012, 09:29:47 PM
http://www.climbing.com/news/patrick-edlinger-reported-dead/
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: strandman on November 17, 2012, 03:00:47 PM
A real big suck--- SO smooth.. like Bachar
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: sneoh on November 17, 2012, 07:59:06 PM
I read that he passed away at home and had been suffering from lung cancer.

I watched several videos of him climbing last night; so impressive, no dynamism at all, cool and and collected.  And such fine footwork, exhibiting incredible hip flexibility (mind boggling "frog" positions, no pun intended).

Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: eyebolter on November 18, 2012, 06:06:31 AM
I read that he passed away at home and had been suffering from lung cancer.

I watched several videos of him climbing last night; so impressive, no dynamism at all, cool and and collected.  And such fine footwork, exhibiting incredible hip flexibility (mind boggling "frog" positions, no pun intended).

Lung cancer, that would explain it.  I actually thought that might be it as a lot of those frenchie climbers are chain smokers.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: sneoh on November 18, 2012, 08:38:32 AM
Well, cause of death has not been confirmed yet but lung cancer is certainly a possibility.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: lucky luke on November 18, 2012, 09:49:59 AM
Sport climber, Patrick Edlinger began climbing with his father on trad routes. He never liked the ethic of his father and started climbing harder routes on smaller cliffs. He is probably one of the first real sport climbers. His commitment to a climb was as high or higher than most trad climbers. He adopted a pure ethic to climb without a rope. In doing so, he was not the first. With his film, he introduced sport climbing ethics that are used today. 

His book, "grimper", with the old version of mountaineering freedom of the hill (fifthe edition) are two most important book to read as a climber. His mentality was to bring people to be autonomous. To learn by themselve and train as much as thy can. He was not a reckless person...but a strong minded climber who was aware of the dangers of climbing. He never tried to convince others that his way of climbing his better than trad climbing.

He sign a petition against climbing competition, with 31 other strong climbers. In that paper, they state that the new generation his going to kill climbing. As people become more competitive, they forget that we can just have fun in a route like lake view which his just 5.4. Today, in most gym, a beginer climb 5.9 or are nothing. They was true.

I learned with his book on my hand. I trained so much that I overtrained when some people smoke in the building where I leaved. I wasn't able to sleep because of smoke allergy. I never know about carpal tunel either and the operation that I had helped me to climb 5.11. I was limited by a physical problem. The book I red after "grimper" was also good and many of them was just to cover one aspect of training that Patrick doesn't explain completely. One can think of him as a good climber that you can beat...for me he his a friend who follow me on all of my best routes.         
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: strandman on November 18, 2012, 01:00:11 PM
I'll never understand you Luke-

You HAD to do it.... I guess it couldn't just be "CLIMBER" Edlinger  ??????

He did Sphinx Crack  13c, onsighted Supercrack and one falled Cosmic Debris 13b  all this many years ago.. pretty good for "sport" climber I guess

 :P
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: sneoh on November 18, 2012, 04:28:58 PM
Yeah, LL/Champ you got me too.  I feel the same way as John.  The guy (RIP, Patrick) was so good at climbing, period.  Yeah, maybe he accelerated the onset of 'sport climbing' but he opened the eyes of many people and got more than a few into climbing as well.  When he free-soloed that route in Verdon barefoot, what was that?  Trad climbing, sport? Or a demo of skill and challenge of oneself that you often promote?


Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: lucky luke on November 19, 2012, 03:18:02 AM
When he free-soloed that route in Verdon barefoot, what was that?  Trad climbing, sport? Or a demo of skill and challenge of oneself that you often promote?

I am sorry that nobody made a traduction of the book "grimper". Without reading the book, it is hard to understand the ethic of edlinger and what he did for the evolution of climbing. I red part of the book so many times that I had to tape the pages.

Peter Croft also climb for his plaisir. Is he a demo of skill or a chalenge of oneself? Do he have to climb at night, when nobody see him, to be consider as an honest person? Edlinger decide to bring an interest for a certain kind of climbing practice in the media. He had to do spectacular climb, as much as to be present in a competition to promote his magazine.   

The only thing that I have with Patrick Edlinger is my addiction for climbing. I never try to be like him, but I climb for my plaisir, to relax and to be away from people whit competitive behavior. it is the most important part of his book. If you make two different categories, varape in french (trad climbing) and sport climbing...there is no competition because each of them have different goal.

Manifeste des 19: http://www.cad-climbers.com/fr/nouvelles/dossiers/article.php?a=22

   
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: M_Sprague on November 19, 2012, 09:00:17 PM
There is talk that he may have fallen down the stairs at home. Still nothing definite though.

You’ve got that covered, Ward, after already taking your stairs out of your house!

I'm not sure if it was a traditional falling down the stairs or sport. I am guessing traditional.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: sneoh on November 19, 2012, 09:38:28 PM
Well, if the fall (down the stairs) were truly sport, it would be "all air". :)
Sorry, could not resist but I am truly sad that he is gone. 
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: smartpig on November 22, 2012, 01:21:35 PM
My only encounter with Patrick Edlinger was at Castle Rock, Boulder Canyon, CO in 1985.  I was climbing Country Club Crack with Ken Reville and a climbing bum** while Edlinger and Christian Griffith were project freeing an old aid route to the right.  Griffith may have bagged the FFA that day.  Patrick took whipper after whipper on the crux, lowering off, pulling the rope, and lighting a smoke after each attempt.  I remember Ken yelling down to him in anger when he pissed into the river and flicked his cig butts into there as well. Edlinger ignored Ken.

To add to Ken's angst, our climbing bum, threw one of our coiled ropes down to the base of Castle Rock because he was too lazy to carry it down. About half way back to Boulder it occurred to us that we forgot to pick up the errant rope.  Luckily we found it where it landed.

I can't help but think that Ken reprimand and the bums rope throwing high jinx contributed to the routes name: Tourist Extravagance, 5.12D!

Patrick Edlinger's French Revolution certainly rubbed the some of the American old guard the wrong way.  As in most things it takes certain radicals to create new ways and push standards.  He came across the water and elevated the American climbing scene as a result.

I can forgive the cigs and piss.  Apparently the cigs did him in.

Edlinger style of climbing was beautiful to watch and inspired those who followed!       

                                                                                                           >_________________RIP PE...........>

**The bums name is long forgotten but I do know he died the following year soloing Bastille Crack in Eldorado.   RIP the bum!
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: kenreville on November 23, 2012, 09:37:42 AM
The "bums" name was Ken Black. He was the 1st person I ever heard call something "jingus". A former character for sure.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: kenreville on November 23, 2012, 09:40:13 AM
Oh, and Luke, nothing personal but you've got a few loose screws. ::)
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: strandman on November 23, 2012, 10:58:44 AM
The "bums" name was Ken Black. He was the 1st person I ever heard call something "jingus". A former character for sure.

AKA Psycho Kenny.. not like out Sycho at all !
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: M_Sprague on November 24, 2012, 12:37:06 PM
... Apparently the cigs did him in....


No. He hit his head falling down the stairs, then dragged himself into the bathroom and died. http://qn.quotidiano.net/cronaca/2012/11/20/805224-morto-edlinger-triste-destino-re-climber-arrampicata.shtml  "È caduto da una ripida scala di casa, battendo la testa e procurandosi una fatale emorragia. Lo hanno trovato privo di vita in bagno, dove si è trascinato agonizzante."

The Italian is typically  dramatic and brutallly blunt.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: Admin Al on November 24, 2012, 03:48:25 PM
Aosta, November 20, 2012 - The fate was mocking with Patrick Edlinger, climbing star and icon, died yesterday in a trivial fall at home. The 'blonde' for friends and 'the dieu' for climbers from around the world was 52 years old and a blazing between past successes and excesses. Has fallen by a steep staircase of the house, hitting his head and by getting a fatal hemorrhage. They found him lifeless in the bathroom, where he dragged dying.
He slammed the wounded temple against the floor between two mattresses that had placed 'for security' under the stairs, at his home in La Palud, in Verdon, a land of rocky cliffs that separate the Alps from the plains of Provence in the south of France. He who had defied the vertical alone, detached, becoming a myth for at least a generation of climbers and not only betrayed by a trivial step.

Born just a few kilometers from the Pyrenees began to climb to eight years in the mountains of home. The turning point in the meeting with Patrick Berhault almost the same age, a great French climber who died in 2004. 'Les deux Patrick' began to climb the gorges of Verdon, opening ways hitherto thought impossible. In the early 80's fame Edlinger was boosted by two documentaries by Jean-Paul Janssen, who have made ​​him a star in the eyes of the general public and have opened the doors to the jet-set. Sculptural Body, flowing blond hair, harsh nature, quickly became a star. newspapers and magazines stood out on his photo 'cult' while stripped to the waist and shorts, stretched out his hand to a tiny grip on the rock.

The rockstar certainly had the look, but also the curse. "His gruff-Cotè tells Guido Azzalea, president of mountain guides in the Valle d'Aosta and his close friend and hid a great fragility. Was very sensitive. Maybe he has not been able to support the weight of success. " Edlinger in 1995 had been the victim of a serious accident in the Calanques in France had fallen down from a wall of 18 meters, suffering a cardiac arrest and was saved by the intervention of a resuscitator. Past few years, says the author of the Biography, Edlinger had drinking problems. Problems that might have led to the fatal accident. Friends of La Palud had seen him more depressed than usual, while walking in the country. "I am a free man and I do not regret anything in my path" will be his epitaph.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: strandman on November 24, 2012, 05:52:16 PM
No matter.. very sad. he was so good at so many things.

Died at the same age as John bachar... more than ironic. if you ever saw them climb together.. well it wasn't climbing.. it was MOVEMENT

bachar- ' it sure dind't take him long to learn cracks"  after onsighting Love Supreme 12+ in Tuolumne around '86
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: sneoh on November 24, 2012, 08:02:00 PM
So very sad for a guy who has free soloed up to 5.13.
PE was a year older than I am.
RIP, Le Blond. :(

John, got any footage of Bachar climbing with Edlinger?  What a pair!! Must have been just awesome to wtach.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: lucky luke on November 25, 2012, 11:38:17 AM
My only encounter with Patrick Edlinger was at Castle Rock, Boulder Canyon, CO in 1985.  I was climbing Country Club Crack with Ken Reville and a climbing bum** while Edlinger and Christian Griffith were project freeing an old aid route to the right.  Griffith may have bagged the FFA that day.  Patrick took whipper after whipper on the crux, lowering off, pulling the rope, and lighting a smoke after each attempt. 

drinking problem is a very big one and Edlinger had it. Competition, trying to show that you are better than him by climbing side by side, and a bad day is not a reason for smoking and do bad things. He his a human an I respect what he did for climbing.

Neverthless, I admit he had the mentality of sport climbing that many people don't like in many aspect. Sport climbing is a very interessant ethic for those who really enjoy to push there limit on hard move with a reasonable safety. For those who prefer commitment, an as I thing that bolts place at fifteen feet under the crux on take it or leave it (30 feet fall) in verdon is not in the ehic of sport climbing in general, I can think that trad is still a different ethic 
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: eyebolter on November 25, 2012, 05:26:52 PM
Luke, did you watch the video Al posted?  Calling him a "sport climber" when he soloed 5.11+ barefoot a thousand feet off deck is not exactly doing him justice, not to mention soloing 5.13 b.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: tradmanclimbz on November 25, 2012, 06:00:26 PM
Anyone  who is really really good these days sport climbs at least some of the time. Even Donnini sport climbs 8)
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: strandman on November 25, 2012, 06:41:02 PM
Ya but Donini only uses old bolts..

the only visual of bachar and Mr Ed i have is tucked in my head.. Tuolumne '85 or "86

I would love to hear LL's version of a :drinking problem"   then again,, maybe not. ever been to a party in Camp 4  ? or even a little post climb bash at callaghan's ???   Didn't think so
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: sneoh on November 25, 2012, 07:56:41 PM
Don't you get LL going about non climbing stuff like drinking, John! :)
LL/Champ, you have made it clear that you prefer to enjoy climbing in a personal and non-competitive way.  We get that since there is at least a bit of that in everyone in us.  But competitiveness among climbers is not limited to sport climbing.  There is competitiveness in trad too I am sorry to break it to you, especially for "trophy" climbs, just as in sport, mountaineering, and ice. 
A little friendly competition is good for motivation and advancing the sport.  I hang around with climbers, male and female who are all competitive in a friendly way and we definitely elevate each other's "game" in a good way.
And, competition climbing is very different from sport climbing in many ways these days.  I can't say whether there were more similarities back when the first Snowbird was held.  Even so they have surely diverged the past 20+ years. 
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: strandman on November 25, 2012, 08:02:50 PM
Competition is part of climbing.. like it or not. Even if it's only with yourself.. like ego.. it's always there, admit it or not.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: ed_esmond on November 25, 2012, 09:45:58 PM
drinking problem is a very big one and Edlinger had it. Competition, trying to show that you are better than him by climbing side by side, and a bad day is not a reason for smoking and do bad things. He his a human an I respect what he did for climbing.

lukey...

maybe i'm reading you wrong, but don't you think your "i'm so superior to all of you because i have the 'true trad' ethic..."  is getting more than a just a little old?

as in: very, very, very old?

you're just "as competitive" as anyone else with your "holier than thou 'trad is still a different ethic'" crap...

i know you'll deny it, but you think you're so much more evolved than the rest of us.

basically you've been saying: "you are all so fck-ed up, and i'm not..."

and if that's not "being competitive, (and painfully self-absorbed)" i don't know what is....

somewhat respectfully,
ed e
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: lucky luke on November 25, 2012, 11:42:12 PM
But competitiveness among climbers is not limited to sport climbing.  There is competitiveness in trad too I am sorry to break it to you, especially for "trophy" climbs, just as in sport, mountaineering, and ice. 
A little friendly competition is good for motivation and advancing the sport.  I hang around with climbers, male and female who are all competitive in a friendly way and we definitely elevate each other's "game" in a good way.

I agree with you that emulation is a great think and that it exist in trad. It is an old discussion. The text of the "manifeste of 21" signed by Edlinger discussed of that and they clearly identify that kind of competition amount alpinist who, to have founding to climb, will kill themselve in trying very hard thing.

The text of the 21 was wrote that the institulization of the competition will change the motivation of the climber. With competition, the game will be to became better than the other. Every think will be good to win: humiliation, insult... Look at the text of ed esmond above: "i" as I  so superior; I have the true ethic; very very very old; In reading that, do you thing that you "definitely elevate each other's "gamme"?

In the manifeste of the 21 they are not for competition because they think that the activity most be use to have a better knowledge of ourselve. It is wrote to favorise personal development and autonomy. A 5.6 climber is as good as a 5.9 one. But a 5.9 one will bring the 5.6 one to discover new route, new technique or just be friend because they have fun. They never say that competition is not good. It is the institutionalization of the competition that is bad and it is actually what is happening.

In other post, some climber told me that Edlinger was not a sport climber because he do a 5.11+ bare feet. But "smart pig" described virtually a sport ethic in his post where the climber hang on a bolt pull themselve and try against and against a move. It is fantastic to see a route like "take it or leave it" and even as a trad climber, I dream to be able to climb it (pratically impossible for me). I respect a hero in sport climbing

In an other thread, I think that you, sneoh, describe the toilet paper in rumney, other talk about erosion, too many bolt, over crowding, etc. This is also an other version of sport, as bad as smoking and pissing in a river (edlin. don't smoke in the river I think).

One other negative aspect with sport climbing is that you try to impose your ethic of climbing by eliminating the trad ethic(humiliating, insult...) In fact, you ridiculise the ethic that your father and the father of your father make to resolve a problem what ever it is: 5.6 or 5.12. Laughing at other is the most easiest thing that an idiot can do. Building an ethic, or two ethic of climbing to allow more people to participate and have fun to climb is not a stupid task. Particularly if it is to allow some people to use climbing for personnel development and be more competant at work. One of my friend had a job when he "go for it" in an interview as we do when we anticipate a move in trad.   
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: OldEric on November 26, 2012, 09:02:42 AM

In an other thread, I think that you, sneoh, describe the toilet paper in rumney, other talk about erosion, too many bolt, over crowding, etc. This is also an other version of sport, as bad as smoking and pissing in a river (edlin. don't smoke in the river I think).
 

I think its quite a stretch to suggest that all these negative - to us anyway - things are an aspect of sport climbing.  I was knocking around the Alps - Cham etc. before most of you were born - certainly before any concept of sport climbing existed - and believe me  they were peeing, pooping and smoking willy nilly.  It's a cultural thing.  Now if LL wants to start ragging on the French that could be entertaining for awhile.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: DGoguen on November 26, 2012, 12:13:39 PM
believe me  they were peeing, pooping and smoking willy nilly. 

I think quite a few folks round here been smoking the Willy Nilly.
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: Jeff on November 26, 2012, 04:55:51 PM
Just keep your lighter away from my willy >:(
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: strandman on November 26, 2012, 06:52:23 PM
Al- you better get the lock ready... just saying
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: lucky luke on November 26, 2012, 08:10:45 PM

In an other thread, I think that you, sneoh, describe the toilet paper in rumney, other talk about erosion, too many bolt, over crowding, etc. This is also an other version of sport, as bad as smoking and pissing in a river (edlin. don't smoke in the river I think).

I think its quite a stretch to suggest that all these negative - to us anyway - things are an aspect of sport climbing. 

I climbed for a while in cathedral and canon and, in my knowledge, the problem did not exist even when there was more than hundred climbers in the cliff some day.

The problem of back packing, take in take out, is relatively recent. Any way, if Sneoh wrote about it, it is because there were a problem and it is possible to resolve it. There are some good will.

Who are those who say that an ethic is so perfect that it can't improve? In that way, the trad ethic and sport ethic have advantage to growth and be more distinct to bring diversity and more people to different cliff, create job and tourism???

Learn sport, climb hard by doing thing at the limit of your capacity and climb trad and understand that if you go at the limit of your capacity you can be kill and be humiliate and insult because you climb easy stuff is maybe not the better way to learn trad.

Have fun to climb, when tope rope is to easy, try aid climbing, try to lead easy stuff, increase your knowledge and training to be able to climb new mountain where you can escape the competitivity of your work, increase your grade to be able to climb with new friends...can also be a way to learn trad. 
Title: Re: Patrick Edlinger est mort
Post by: sneoh on November 26, 2012, 10:23:15 PM
I think the TP issue at Rumney has gotten to be less of a problem in 2012, partly to do with raised awareness and partly to do with more porta-johns (two each in each parking lot).  Erosion?  Still a bit of a problem (many visitors) but I do not think the situation has gotten a lot worse in general.  Hey, I was hiking around in Acadia NP this summer and I lost count of the number of "hikers" going off established trails and making new ones for their own convenience.  Same deal at RMNP 20 years ago when I visited.  In other words, the land is going get strained and abused when it gets a lot of visitors and climbers (both trad and sport).


One other negative aspect with sport climbing is that you try to impose your ethic of climbing by eliminating the trad ethic(humiliating, insult...) In fact, you ridiculise the ethic that your father and the father of your father make to resolve a problem what ever it is: 5.6 or 5.12. Laughing at other is the most easiest thing that an idiot can do. Building an ethic, or two ethic of climbing to allow more people to participate and have fun to climb is not a stupid task. Particularly if it is to allow some people to use climbing for personnel development and be more competant at work.
Champ, in the past, did a few sport climbers make fun of you or your climbing?  Did that scar you and made you so much against sport climbing in general?  There are bad people in everything, sport climbing does not have a monopoly on that.  Heck, some of the biggest a&^%holes I have come across climbing I encountered while trad climbing at the East Coast mecca of trad - The Gunks. 
It does not make you more or less 'ethical' (whatever that means) or care more or less about the environment if you clip bolts!