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General => Beginners Area => Topic started by: goodrockrich on November 25, 2013, 09:41:24 PM

Title: Ice rack?
Post by: goodrockrich on November 25, 2013, 09:41:24 PM
I'm looking to put together an ice rack.  Does any one have any suggestions on the number and size of the screws I should purchase?
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: Admin Al on November 26, 2013, 08:49:23 AM
ice screws mostly come in a mix of sizes ranging from 10cm, 16cm, 19cm and 22cm. [grin] In some ways the answer to your question is; "as many screws as you can afford". but to be more realistic here's my thoughts:

3 -   long ~22cm
10 - medium - a mix of 16 and 19 cm.
2 -   stubbies - 10 cm

you will always want to have at least 1 long screw on your harness to create a V-thread. the other 2 will be used for belays, wherever you can find a long screw placement. the mediums and shorts are for wherever is appropriate.

FWIW I know people who carry mostly 22cm screws, the idea being that you can always tie off a long screw. that's not my feeling, but YYMV depending on your experience.
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: Admin Al on November 26, 2013, 08:51:38 AM
RE placing ice screws - I was trying to find the original of this article, but I just foubd this version:

http://www.needlesports.com/catalogue/content.aspx?con_id=095232e4-4caf-49ec-8495-9c9e00a633da

check it out, it's worth reading.
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: goodrockrich on November 26, 2013, 09:14:22 AM
Cool thanks!

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Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: fresh on November 26, 2013, 11:33:51 AM
BD actually makes 13cm screws as well, and this forms most of my rack. in good ice, they're just as strong as 16cm screws. they are lighter, and take slightly less time to place. some complain that they don't go deep enough into the good ice; as far as I'm concerned, if you aren't cleaning shitty ice off the surface to begin with, or aren't placing where the ice forms convexities, a 16cm screw won't help you :)
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: ELM on November 27, 2013, 11:18:52 AM
...dare I mention screamers?
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: Admin Al on November 27, 2013, 11:24:45 AM
Screamers, yes! I have 8 of them on my rack.
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: M_Sprague on November 27, 2013, 12:33:16 PM
(http://us.123rf.com/450wm/boule13/boule131212/boule13121200150/16810614-bar-accessories-with-ice--bucket-shaker-tongs-jigger-isolated.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: goodrockrich on November 27, 2013, 04:31:40 PM
(http://us.123rf.com/450wm/boule13/boule131212/boule13121200150/16810614-bar-accessories-with-ice--bucket-shaker-tongs-jigger-isolated.jpg)
This is certainly the type of ice I am going to be consuming this thanksgiving weekend. 8)

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Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on November 27, 2013, 05:34:24 PM
Now we know why it takes Al so long to declare a climb IN ;D It's all those long screws ;)
My standard ice rack.
3. 10cm
4. 13cm
3. 16cm
1. 19cm
1. 22 cm

For the Lake I add  3 more 16cm  to my standard rack unless it is febuary or march super sunny day in which case I trade out some of the shorter screws for 16cm and longer if they are available...

Tying off screws is REALLY BAD JU JU! much better off carrying shorter screws. they are just as bomber in good ice and give you so many more options in bad ice. Ever notice how you often hit air pockets with longer screws in free standing curtains. Next time that happens try a 13 or  10 and you might be supprised to find that you may get a solid placement in the outer layer without hitting air 8)
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: slink on November 28, 2013, 06:44:59 AM
 I am with Nick on this 13 and 16s. I rarely carry a 22 anymore except back country route without established rap routes. Remember ice pro is phsychological pro do not fall.
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: neiceclimber on November 28, 2013, 07:59:44 AM
You should be good to go on most routes with between 10-14 screws. I prefer bd turbos express, but in reality any coffee grinder type screw will work just fine. I prefer screws on the shorter side, but as a beginner I'd  buy mostly bd gold and blues and one or two of the biggest. I only carry one 22 and that's only if I know the route needs to be v threaded. Otherwise, if you really need to bail in good ice the blue will hold or sacrifice a screw.
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: DLottmann on December 01, 2013, 11:37:00 PM
I’m hoping to replace all my BD Express with the new Petzl screws which should hit stores in a week or two... but going off BD dimensions this is my ideal 10-screw rack (My OR rack carrier holds ten, and if I can’t do it with 10... well... I;m sure my partner has some screws I can borrow)

1 22cm for building v-threads (really this is super important IMO, may be used in anchor)
2 19cm for anchors (but only 1 per anchor, utilizing the 22 or a 15 situation dependant)
6 13cm for running pro (same thread count as BD 17cms, but lighter... you really shouldn’t be falling on ice climbing anyways)
1 10cm for that thin placement you can’t tie off

If I am climbing hard thin than hoping my parter has some 13cms, but for “normal” New England conditions I think my 10 screw spread is mint... YMMV
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on December 02, 2013, 06:04:28 AM
Ahh. !13's are not thin ice pro they are standard ice pro. 10's are thin.
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: goodrockrich on December 02, 2013, 08:20:26 AM
I’m hoping to replace all my BD Express with the new Petzl screws which should hit stores in a week or two... but going off BD dimensions this is my ideal 10-screw rack (My OR rack carrier holds ten, and if I can’t do it with 10... well... I;m sure my partner has some screws I can borrow)

1 22cm for building v-threads (really this is super important IMO, may be used in anchor)
2 19cm for anchors (but only 1 per anchor, utilizing the 22 or a 15 situation dependant)
6 15cm for running pro (same thread count as BD 17cms, but lighter... you really shouldn’t be falling on ice climbing anyways)
1 13cm for that thin placement you can’t tie off

If I am climbing hard thin than hoping my parter has some 13cms, but for “normal” New England conditions I think my 10 screw spread is mint... YMMV
The link below might be some food for thought when choosing ice screw brands.  The food in this case would be deep dish pizza.  Any way I found this over at NEIce and though I would share it here as well.  Take it for what it is.  We don't climb concrete but still interesting.

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013...echnology.html (http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013...echnology.html)
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: DLottmann on December 02, 2013, 08:31:20 AM

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013...echnology.html (http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013...echnology.html)

Link didn't work.

Tradman, yup, you're right, my numbers where all messed up. Editing now. Should be:

1 22cm for building v-threads (really this is super important IMO, may be used in anchor)
2 19cm for anchors (but only 1 per anchor, utilizing the 22 or a 15 situation dependent)
6 13cm for running pro (same thread count as BD 16cms, but lighter... you really shouldn’t be falling on ice climbing anyways)
1 10cm for that thin placement you can’t tie off
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: goodrockrich on December 02, 2013, 08:36:38 AM
I’m hoping to replace all my BD Express with the new Petzl screws which should hit stores in a week or two... but going off BD dimensions this is my ideal 10-screw rack (My OR rack carrier holds ten, and if I can’t do it with 10... well... I;m sure my partner has some screws I can borrow)

1 22cm for building v-threads (really this is super important IMO, may be used in anchor)
2 19cm for anchors (but only 1 per anchor, utilizing the 22 or a 15 situation dependant)
6 15cm for running pro (same thread count as BD 17cms, but lighter... you really shouldn’t be falling on ice climbing anyways)
1 13cm for that thin placement you can’t tie off

If I am climbing hard thin than hoping my parter has some 13cms, but for “normal” New England conditions I think my 10 screw spread is mint... YMMV
The link below might be some food for thought when choosing ice screw brands.  The food in this case would be deep dish pizza.  Any way I found this over at NEIce and though I would share it here as well.  Take it for what it is.  We don't climb concrete but still interesting.

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013...echnology.html (http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013...echnology.html)
Sorry.  Here is the working link.

http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/11/ice-screw-technology.html (http://coldthistle.blogspot.com/2013/11/ice-screw-technology.html)
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: DLottmann on December 02, 2013, 08:58:33 PM
Interesting read... best thing I got out of it;

" Rule #1?  Don't fall.  If you can't abide #1 use rock pro and tie down your belayer for good measure.”

Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: hobbsj on December 04, 2013, 06:04:56 PM
Depends on where you climb.  Out in Camden, the stubby is essential, just like the pink, white and black tricam on rock.  Other places, you can go a bit longer depending on what you climb.  For instance, in MWV yesterday, I used several 16's but also placed multiple 13's and 10's due to the thickness of the ice.  I've never used my 22 out here except for a v-thread.  My 19 got dropped years ago and I haven't even noticed it missing except for the extra orange screw cover and the guilt of losing a $55 piece of gear.  16's are a good place to start as they will definitely get used a lot.  As you can see from the forum, the longer and shorter depend on who you ask.  IMOP, you can clean off junk ice, but you can't make ice, so if you can only get a limited number, I would get 1 or 2 10's and 1 or 2 13's to start with in addition to the 16's at least to start with.  You will need them at some point.  You just may not need 4 stubbies and 3 yellows to get pro at this point in your career.  And longer screws aren't necessarily stronger.  In the same quality ice, the yellow and blue BD have the same thread area.  Not sure about the long ones.  Just for FYI, my rack consists of 1 22, 6 16's, 4 13's and 4 10's.  I've been very grateful to have the option of the shorter screws in that quantity.  But, it also just the luck of what and when I climb.  Next time you're out, just take note of where you think you would want to place some gear and start assessing the ice.  And find some partners with screws to see what you use of theirs before you get too many of one size.
Title: Re: Ice rack?
Post by: tradmanclimbz on December 04, 2013, 08:01:49 PM
Right now I have 4 10's,  41 3's 3 16's 1 19 and one 22. That is good for everything except The lake on a  sunny day. I want more long screws in that situation.  I like 15 screws for long routs @ the lake